Monks and Fists

[Onimaster]

Please can you address why you want a fist over multiple weapons.

Well, the debate started over coffee when Olan's player and I were reminiscing how much Shale and Olan really didn't like eachother... And we decided that next event we wanted for the two to lose their tempers and just beat the snot out of eachother... Then there was the issue of... "Can we?" "I dunno..., but we defiantly need to temporarily rescind our citizenship so we aren't criminals..." "Yeah, but neither of us are monks and neither of us really want to stab each other to death..."

And then we started talking about disarm and the rest of the debate, and until Eric Ried saw that little blurb on a chart no one knew if we could or not. And by then, the debate had bloomed into what it is now.

I really don't care about carrying multiple weapons.. you'd be crazy not to... But I don't see the ability to arm your self sensibly as a justification for not having something like this as well. They are not mutually exclusive rules concepts.

[Ian_McAllister]

Two words to Chris's question...

Shatter

Disarm


With those two abilities, you can carry as many weapons as you want, but in the end you will have nothing.. Your fist cannot be taken away from you, nor shattered... and sometimes running just is not an option... So for these reasons I would believe something should be done to be able to do something completely unarmed.

So far I believe Taki's suggestions have fit into the current rule structure nicely and seem to be quite balanced.

[dier_cire]

Actually, I think what Taki hit is 100% doable without a single rule added. Rage currently reads "increase damage dealt by a weapon by one (pg 64)" A fist is a weapon, just not one most people can do damage with. Hero point: "increase your damage by 1 for a battle or scene". Again, a fist is a weapon, just not one that can deal damage.

Course, it also points out a gapping flaw in the whole system. With level 1 grenadier, I can throw for 2 using rage. (note the lack of the word melee in the rules.) Damn you Taki for making me point that out I was looking forward to pummeling you with rocks again.

As well, any warrior could use a bow for one, or throw rocks for one using rage, using this concept. Throw in "melee" again and the the weapon you can do this with is a fist (and the other two with a hero point).

[GM_Chris]

Well brawling would still do real damage so it isnt really any different than using a weapon.

You are talking about an RP thing that in our system would have deadly consequences.

Shatter: Well you are catastrophising a bit here saying you would have nothing. I do not believe we have to date brought in anything that just swings shatter.

Disarm: Well I guess I would simply have like 4 daggers on me and well they would kill themselves trying to disarm themselves.

[WayneO42]

Well brawling would still do real damage so it isnt really any different than using a weapon.

You are talking about an RP thing that in our system would have deadly consequences.

What life points represent is a different debate entirely. When you hit zero life, you are basically unconcious (not dead) so when you are taken to zero points with a fist, you just got KO'ed. When you have been taken to zero by a sword, you may have passed out due to blood loss or maybe taken the flat of the blade against the temple.

[Claude du Sinjin]

Shatter: Well you are catastrophising a bit here saying you would have nothing. I do not believe we have to date brought in anything that just swings shatter.

Just a reminder, when in the shadowy realm place after that pit of creation fiasco I seem to remember a creature that I only heard swing shatter. Nelki lost his sword to it I thinks...

[GM_Chris]

Ah yes the creature that swings shatter from across the way, walking toward you and then dies in one hit.

[Claude du Sinjin]

I didn't say it was impressive, I just said it swung Shatter!

[DrakelenasElderich]

One thing I find funny about all this is that if you want to swing 1 damage with a fist you still need a physrep. Why not just make that a dagger?

"Oh no, I've been disarmed. I need to get a new weapon out fast. Oh crap, I don't have a back up. Let me pull out my fist physrep to keep fighting."

See what I mean.

As for brawling rules, RP it out. If you really need to call damage then do it for just that scene. You call one, he calls one. Unless useing rage or a Hero point. Then that person would call two.

Otherwise I think Taki nailed it on the head. Normal fist does zero damage.

[Lambic]

An interesting point this discussion brings up is, what does happen when someone (for example a monk) blocks shatter with his fist phys-reps?

[dier_cire]

Same thing that would happen to everyone else, I'd imagine. If I block with a fist, nothing happens, so why would the monk be any different?

Then again, I like the idea of a monk getting his fist ripped off, only to imediately regenerate it. Go go super healing!

[Corbyn]

With so little armor and life held by each character, I can't see having everyone's fists do damage. If we all had 50 armor and 25 life or more, I would love to see epic fisticuffs break out, but that isn't our game. I can easily get behind Taki's suggestion, although I wouldn't mind seeing it just limited to hero points to avoid warriors choding out monks. Just brainstorming but what if fists did '1 knockout' for damage? That might only chode the sage slightly, people in armor would be protected from fists as they should be anyway to some degree, but you still have to be wary of someone pummeling you with their hands if your armor is trashed or you don't have it on. The only problem is that the fistfights would be very short unless folks are in armor, then they would be interminable.

[Nelkie]

I'm back, and only read a couple post on this subject, but here are my two cents.

A person should not be able to do damage with their fists unless trained aka Monk. A untrained person aka a nomonk using only their fists would get get beat down by their oppent who is using a weapon. Not to mention you take damage if you block with your fists. As said before, carry extra weapons. If you want to punch, be a monk.

I could get behind using a hero point to do 1 damage with ones fist.

Now in the beginning of the game a person could go into the woods a grab a stick and swing 1 damage. Is this still possible? or does the weapon have to crafted to do damage??

[dier_cire]

Aaron, under the current rules you already can swing 1 with a fist using a hero point and/or rage.

[GM_Chris]

I think saying that using a hero point or rage is acceptable under the current rules is a reach/stretch of the system.

As a Gm no you cannot under the current system use rage or a hero point to swing damage with something you do not have the skill to use. This includes missle weapons and fists. This may change, but for now no.

Chris