sage question

[McEwan]

A bit curious about the order of basic skills

How does the sage do resurch if read and write is the second skill?

I know the sage gets all of the abilities at once, but it looks like a repete of the order problem that used to be with the Rouge basics (i.e. read and write is MUCH more useful to the general populac than Research)

[GM_Chris]

Possibly excapt that now only the sage can research and can only research what they know.

Forexample a sage can research plot stuff

A sage\arcane can now research new spells
A sage\craftsman new items
A sage\alchemist new potions

ONLY sages can research and it will not be a group project. Forexample Kidwin could not ask a sage\knight to research a new item for her.

It was our decision to thus put research at the first thing you get for the arcane\craftsman\alchemists who wish to perform their own research.

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As for needing how to read um that is not nessissary at all for research ask the illiterate

[McEwan]

Okay, I agree with your reasoning, it just struck me that literacy mey very well go through the floor

[Ug]

I agree that Read/Write should mayhaps be the first skill, not second.

[Trevor Owen]

Literacy is not common. Only people dedicated to learning become literate. If literacy falls through the floor, that is okay.

[WayneO42]

You can still buy read/write with starting equipment points

[McEwan]

another quicky.

How does this effec those who have already bought one ability of sage?

[GM_Chris]

If you bought read and write and it isnt there no more we refund you the cost of the skill.

Chris

[Ug]

It means you may want to get rid of that ability, or perhaps now you can research.

[McEwan]

lol Well I could resurch undead.

"No, no that's the South Padagonian left handed tree wraith, they can only be destroyed by blue salt, or foul language spoaken in Portugues."

lol

[WayneO42]

"No, no that's the South Padagonian left handed tree wraith, they can only be destroyed by blue salt, or foul language spoaken in Portugues."

Great...thanks for destroying this years major plot...back to the drawing board.

Like I said in an earlier post, Read/write is available to buy with starting cash. I dont know how we will work that in re-writes but it may be an option to retro-actively obtain it.

[GM_Chris]

Yeah and ofcource the equipment section is getting a small overhaul as well since we added things.

Chris

[Lambic]

Basic

Basic Research
This ability allows you to research some past lore between events. Only one thing can be researched. You are not guaranteed to learn anything.

Well, you want to make Sage more useful, ok limit everyone else. Not horrible, but if you are going to put so much emphasis on this then, one would expect at least an update between EVERY event so that we can know where we stand and are better able to role play what we are researching. I have a hard time rambling about the wonderful history of Dwarven Alchemist if I don't know anything about them. All I'm asking is to be kept in the loop. If I am coming on too strong here, it is only because I care and want to add more to the game (as hoeky as that sounds).

Read and write
This skill allows you to read\write 2 languages.

It honestly seemed like an aweful lot of people were literate to me.

Utilze resource
The sage knows how to use the resources around them more effectivly thus the sage may trade any combination of resources in to meet their living requirement.

No real feelings on this. It could be useful in certain situations.

Advanced
Administrate
The sage knows how to use potions and salves to their fullest extent adding 1 extra HP healed when the sage admins a healing potion.

Ok sort of spiffy and useful but I don't really see the rational behind it.

Augment
)This is a buff that takes 10 minutes and can be put on a single person, including the Sage him/herself. This buff augments 1 skill and 1 skill only. The effects of this buff are determined by the skill and is listed below:
1) If applied to vigor you gain 1 LP.
2) If you have combat reflexes you gain 2 armor
3) If you have a timed skill that is 15 seconds or less you take 2 seconds off the time.
4) If you have a timed skill that is 30 seconds or less you take 5 seconds off the time.
5) If you have a timed skill that is 1 minute or less you take 10 seconds off the time.
To use this skill simply explain to the person what skill you are going to augment and give them a sage tag. The sage should role play while performing this skill. Sage tags can be gotten at NPC camp.

First of all I think you meant "more" not less, everytime. otherwise the 10 second reduction off any timed skill.

Second, I can only guess that you guys wanted to almost completely get rid of resists or give them to another discipline. This empaths more powerful and the game as a whole more deadly in my opinion. For example non-warriors are gonna die, ALOT!

Thirdly a sage now needs to know what skills anyone the want to help has. Not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing out that when someone comes up and asks me for help or I see someone I want to offer assistance to, I need to either already know their skills or ask them what skill they want me to augment. This can be a very informative discussion. Someone asks me to augment an ability that no-one knew they had. Again not saying its bad just pointing out the flow of information.

Lastly how many tags can one person have? Can a sage spend an hour with himself and have six?

Oh yeah and 2 whole seconds shaved off ??!!?? Woo Hoo (please note the sarcasm). Maybe I'm missing something here, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tactics
The sage knows the tactics in battle through study and training gaining 1 point of bonus armor. This ability stacks with utilize armor/combat reflexes.

At first look this doesn't seem like a big deal but with the lowering of LP it becomes more powerful. Might be nice at first level though.

Waylay
The sage through study has learned how to knock people out. This skill stacks with other stun strikes.

Nifty but I again don't really get the rational. its nice to get something semi-offensive, but it doesn't seem to fit in so much. (Notice player bitching about being given something rather than something taken away).

Master
Decipher script
A sage may know any language by spending 1 hour on the words. Once deciphered the sage would need to write the translation on another piece of paper OR the sage will need to decipher it again the next time the words wish to be read.

I don't have anything to say other than I think this is a nice balanced Master Level ability.

Recall
A sage may recieve 1 hint to a plot or puzzle. To recieve a hint the sage needs to be out of combat for 15 minutes and find either an OOC game master running the plot OR go to NPC camp to recieve your hint. Sages may work collectively if they both have recall by both sages taking 15 minutes and then comming to NPC camp together. This will give the sages a better hint. Up to three sages may work collectively for a hint. After a hint is given additional time spent will not give any more hints.

Well at least this hasn't gone away completly. But honestly as much I liked having I was never able to get much of anywhere with this ability at a lower level. I guess I wasn't ever very good at 20 questions. Now that is a Master Level only ability I would expect people will have more luck with it.

Mimic
With this skill the sage may mimic ANY first level discipipline or Path except for barter, wilderness survival, alchemy, and arcane. It takes a half an hour to recieve the skill, but the skill lasts until you mimic a different skill. Any armour restriction of the the mimiced skill do apply.

This is probably the best skill that Sages get. I'm not sure that this and research can sell the whole path though.

I do feel like I've come on strong here, but I try not to usually, I try and be patient, this however is important to me. Its a pretty big change, I'm holding off on whether I'm sticking with Sage until I let it sink in a little more. At this point I don't think Sage went the way I was hoping it would, but I'm still holding off on my final verdict.

[GM_Chris]

Thanks for this post. Let me see if I can explain the sage in good detail. I was actually just talking to some peeps about this some people seem to think the sage isnt that good while others think the sage has become bad ass.

Anways the sage is the jack of all trades path. Call them a bard call them something else they are a jack of all trades.

Previously the sages got read/write, 3 buffs that took a long time, and hints. Well now they get 1 great buff (trust me on this you have not seen how the buffs are going to be changed with alchemy and arcane). They still have read/write, and the they still get hints. We then gave you 4 new skills and made mimic awsome.

Now lets start with hints.
The plot team is going to give most plots 3 levels of hints. You come with 1 sage you get the first hint. You come with 2 sages you get the first and second level hint. You come with 3 you get all 3. This way there are no guess work and you can get a max of 3 hints. Thus why we only have it once.

The 3 skills added was our attempt at the jack of all trades.
I agree they not awsome, they are only intended to give a small boost. You get 1 soak, some healing, and the ability to knock people out. This can happen consistantly.

Next Mimic
With mimic the sage can give them another 2 soak or raise their knockout to level 4..6 if a velkinvie. This is a very potent skill. In addition you have a floating skill allowing you to do alot of different things. Trust me in this will be more versitle than arcane or alchemy.

Lastly is Augment
So with augment the sage can give them another 2 soak making their total soak up to level 5. This matches the warrior at master level almost.

The sage can give themselves extra life. They can even lower their backstab time.

Now as for the time decreases...2 seconds is HUGE! 2 seconds off a 5 counted skill. You count mississippi's? 2 seconds can be life or death. Heck ever think about a channling chrystal and this buff for a 4 second count?

Chris

[McEwan]

Okay, I've been brooding over this all day. I've tried to put the whole thing in the best light possable and mulled over how it could help the most of the players. Your reasoning has a valid place in dark-ages Europe. But this is not dark-ages Europe, this is a game.

So explain to me what use is research to a Knight, a wich-hunter, a warlord, or any other disapline other than arcane/craftsman/alchenist, or maybe one or two others?

I want to understand. Tell me why, if I'm an archer, I would give two hoots about the ability to research when it would be easier and more helpful (for myself and those around me) to flag down Mr. Smartytwoshoes to teach me my ABC's

We switched around the first two ablities in rouge, not for any psudo_historic reasons, but because Spot was MUCH more useful to the general population.

Now it's set up that if you come in as a warior and you want to read you can chose to either A) go without food B) go without the materals to repair you equipment, or C) go without the equipment.

Ten points at start-up is alot.

The altenitive is "Well gee, Mr. monk, You'll be able to read that scroll your master left you, but first you'll have to research the deeper mysteries of Poo-on-you where you will master the art of picking your nose with your big toe."