There was some discusion near the end of last season that the area from the ankles down would be outlawed this season (like head, groin and hands).
and I was wondering if a desission has been made.
ankle biting
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ankle biting
Ignorance can be fixed...stupid you're stuck with
re
hmmmmm perhaps talk away!
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Weeellll....
I can think of two reasons to dis allow blows to the feet.
The good one: It could be a safty issue. It stikes me that on unfamiliar terrain, or at night it would be easy to make a mistep when trying to avoid said ankle shot, or a blow to someone's ankle when they have just shifted their weight to it could also be real bad.
The second, not so good, reason: I really think ankel biting is extremely cheap. Someone can't get past a foe's defence so they slide their weapon along the ground and call the hit <sigh>.
Is ankel biting a lagitamate RL tactic? Of course it is. But so are head shots and shield punches, both the prime counters to a ground level attack.
P.S. It just occured to me. As to the safty issue. With most weapons, in order to go for an ankle shot a person has to dip their body a bit, putting their head where any incomeing blow would be.
I can think of two reasons to dis allow blows to the feet.
The good one: It could be a safty issue. It stikes me that on unfamiliar terrain, or at night it would be easy to make a mistep when trying to avoid said ankle shot, or a blow to someone's ankle when they have just shifted their weight to it could also be real bad.
The second, not so good, reason: I really think ankel biting is extremely cheap. Someone can't get past a foe's defence so they slide their weapon along the ground and call the hit <sigh>.
Is ankel biting a lagitamate RL tactic? Of course it is. But so are head shots and shield punches, both the prime counters to a ground level attack.
P.S. It just occured to me. As to the safty issue. With most weapons, in order to go for an ankle shot a person has to dip their body a bit, putting their head where any incomeing blow would be.
Ignorance can be fixed...stupid you're stuck with
Ok, so what do you propose then for people who have ungodly long shields and give you nothing to swing at but their ankles? See, if you are going to start bitching about that tactic then I'm a going to have to voice the other side of the coin. Sometimes the only shot out there is that tactic.
Dead pirate betrayed by Corbyn...ah well least I made him do his own dirty work when he killed me.
Completly skipped over the safty thing, huh?Kidwynn wrote:Ok, so what do you propose then for people who have ungodly long shields and give you nothing to swing at but their ankles? See, if you are going to start bitching about that tactic then I'm a going to have to voice the other side of the coin. Sometimes the only shot out there is that tactic.
Whether, or not I think ankle biting is cheese is something I have to deal with and is MY problem. However, if I swing for the lower legs and really hurt someone this, I believe, is a real problem.
Do you really think that because some players have overly large shields (and some do) it's ok to injure someone, including the person swinging at the feet (head shots ARE illegal for a reason)?
I don't want to get hurt, and I REALLY don't want to have to live with the fact that I sent someone to the hospitel because takeing out their ankles was the "only viable tactic".
P.S. You probably could have responded with out accusing me of bitching
Ignorance can be fixed...stupid you're stuck with
RE
Well we use bopper weapons and thus we perfer swinging low over swining high. In SCA they perfer you swing hingh and not low but they use different weapons.
Now is it cheese to hit the foot..well um yeah probably.
As for large shields this isnt 1 on 1 combat so if you play your cards right you can get past a shield wall in a few ways.
Oh and colin always hits me shield or no.
Chris
Now is it cheese to hit the foot..well um yeah probably.
As for large shields this isnt 1 on 1 combat so if you play your cards right you can get past a shield wall in a few ways.
Oh and colin always hits me shield or no.
Chris
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
Wasn't even saying you were bitching. Was just pointing out that some people have extra long shields and all and no I wasn't skipping over safety either.
I'd say more but not going to. What we need is a ruling on shield size and then on the foot shot. I generally swing high, so doesn't make a bit of differance to me either way.
I'd say more but not going to. What we need is a ruling on shield size and then on the foot shot. I generally swing high, so doesn't make a bit of differance to me either way.
Dead pirate betrayed by Corbyn...ah well least I made him do his own dirty work when he killed me.
Question
In hte history of carps and FH has anybody been hurt from foot/ ankle hits? I pesonal have not heard of any. Has anyone else? Is truely a safety issue??
My Thoughts
Aaron
Aaron
Well I haven't heard of anyone getting badly hurt, but I have seen some limping around, admitedly from trying to avoid and catching a ditch. Pluss, I've had to pull back a few times when I've been about to nail someone in the head when they have come in low for a foot shot.
Ignorance can be fixed...stupid you're stuck with
Re: Question
Actually most of the people that get hurt are the ankle biters, they get head shots more often. Not that I've seen anyone have to go to the hospital for it but I have definitely seen ankle biters get clocked in the noggin.Nelkie wrote:In hte history of carps and FH has anybody been hurt from foot/ ankle hits? I pesonal have not heard of any. Has anyone else? Is truely a safety issue??
My opinion on this really depends on what shield sizes will be. If the sizes are still large then knees down should be a legal target area. If the shield size will be smaller then knees down should be looked at for exclusion from legal target areas.
Death=Adder
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
One of these days...I'm going to cut you into little pieces...
~Pink Floyd~
People limping can be attributed to other things besides the ankle biting shot. I mean the ground isn't exactly stable and there are divits and all that it one hits wrong can be interesting. Trust me in the wow...almost 8 years playing this type of larp I have twisted my ankles or knees a bit just due to the ground and bad coordination.
Head shots however do happen and not just because of the "ankle biting shot". You go high, you can hit people in the head. A sword blow can be deflected and still nail you in the head.
It happens.
If the GM staff wants to make a ruling on it fine, I'm cool with that same thing on shields and all.
Head shots however do happen and not just because of the "ankle biting shot". You go high, you can hit people in the head. A sword blow can be deflected and still nail you in the head.
It happens.
If the GM staff wants to make a ruling on it fine, I'm cool with that same thing on shields and all.
Dead pirate betrayed by Corbyn...ah well least I made him do his own dirty work when he killed me.
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Donovan Thynedar
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As a tall person who uses a large shield, I may be responsible for more head shots than anyone else on the field. It's all entirely accidental, but when someone whose head is already at my shoulder level ducks down to swipe at my ankles, any blow not aimed at their knees becomes a possible head hit. There's only so much redirection one can do at that point, and I don't really know hew to prevent it. I switched to a weapon literally designed to wrap to one side in hopes of preventing such hits, and they still happened. One person actually turned directly into my blow in order to hit me in the legs.
I'm not sure if shield regulations will necessarily help. Despite it's size, my shield still leaves my right side exposed, but since that is my sword arm it's easier to parry a blow from that side - making the legs a more effective target and bringing us back to square one.
The only possible problem with encouraging small sheilds is that you end up with a great deal more sheild movement, and therein more possibility for a safety issue. I'll leave the LARP ramifications to those more experienced, but there is a great deal of difference between a "static shield" defense and an "active shield" or buckler defense.
Potential solutions? Good question. I'd say that the legs are still a viable target area, though making the feet illegal might get people to aim a little higher - thus helping prevent the ducking-head-shot and potential tripping hazards. I like the suggestion that a shield leave at least one legal target area exposed - it prevents true wall sheilds while still allowing people to use shields proportional to their size (don't know why I'd be advocating that...).
Some of these issues are just the dangers of the game we play. It will never be absolutely safe or absolutely fair, all we can do is aim for "absolute" and hope to get as close as we can. As Nelkie said, it doesn't seem that ankle injuries from hits have been an issue. While there's no reason to ignore a potential safety hazard, let's not run from a paper lion either.
I'm not sure if shield regulations will necessarily help. Despite it's size, my shield still leaves my right side exposed, but since that is my sword arm it's easier to parry a blow from that side - making the legs a more effective target and bringing us back to square one.
The only possible problem with encouraging small sheilds is that you end up with a great deal more sheild movement, and therein more possibility for a safety issue. I'll leave the LARP ramifications to those more experienced, but there is a great deal of difference between a "static shield" defense and an "active shield" or buckler defense.
Potential solutions? Good question. I'd say that the legs are still a viable target area, though making the feet illegal might get people to aim a little higher - thus helping prevent the ducking-head-shot and potential tripping hazards. I like the suggestion that a shield leave at least one legal target area exposed - it prevents true wall sheilds while still allowing people to use shields proportional to their size (don't know why I'd be advocating that...).
Some of these issues are just the dangers of the game we play. It will never be absolutely safe or absolutely fair, all we can do is aim for "absolute" and hope to get as close as we can. As Nelkie said, it doesn't seem that ankle injuries from hits have been an issue. While there's no reason to ignore a potential safety hazard, let's not run from a paper lion either.
One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope.
Hits
People who do swing for the lower legs have a tendency to get hit in the head more often. It's that person fault, not the the person swinging.
As for active shield vrs static shield you just have to look how Mr Reid fights. He uses an active shield defense in the fact he meets the blow coming at him. This leads to people bashing there knuckles on his shield. I should know, I have done it enough. I was leading with my hand and not my sword. And by the time I has bring my sword down his shield was there and my knuckles hit it. It happens. It part of playing a game where you sword fight.
I really don't want to see rules saying the feet are off limits or the ankles, or below the knees. Is it chessy to hit a foot all the time. Yes it is, but some times that all that you can hit. I always try to hit the shin right below the shield, but some times it hits a foot. Combat is not perfect.
Some responsiblity has to placed on the person on who is attacking and not all on the person defending. If a person is stupid enough to lead whith there head and duck into blows, than they will get hurt. There is only so much one can do against bad fighting manuvers. Don't ankle bite if you are using a short sword, or you will get hurt, etc.. Use common sense.
As for active shield vrs static shield you just have to look how Mr Reid fights. He uses an active shield defense in the fact he meets the blow coming at him. This leads to people bashing there knuckles on his shield. I should know, I have done it enough. I was leading with my hand and not my sword. And by the time I has bring my sword down his shield was there and my knuckles hit it. It happens. It part of playing a game where you sword fight.
I really don't want to see rules saying the feet are off limits or the ankles, or below the knees. Is it chessy to hit a foot all the time. Yes it is, but some times that all that you can hit. I always try to hit the shin right below the shield, but some times it hits a foot. Combat is not perfect.
Some responsiblity has to placed on the person on who is attacking and not all on the person defending. If a person is stupid enough to lead whith there head and duck into blows, than they will get hurt. There is only so much one can do against bad fighting manuvers. Don't ankle bite if you are using a short sword, or you will get hurt, etc.. Use common sense.
My Thoughts
Aaron
Aaron