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Which skill would sages like to see in there path?

Way Lay - Grants you a 1 knock out which can stack with other skills.
(Can easly power it up to do 6 knock out with just the sage skills. Add in races and commidity items you can do 10 knock out. Can get even high with disapline skills)

Minor Critical strike - Grants you a 2 damage melee attack that takes a 5 count to charge. Can not be combined with any other critical strike skill.
(Can be powered up to 4 damage for a 3 count with commidity items and sage buff)

What do people like better?

Oh goodness...

I like sage the way they are currently so I prefer the waylay. I know that I'm the minority when it comes to that however.

In my honest opinion sage is a good solid path. Not much to complain about. I know on paper a lot of people look at waylay and are like "This is useless". Even without an augment this ability can be used to great effect. You just have to be more observent.

i have yet to play a sage, but...

waylay, 1 knockout.....if the person, monster, etc. has even 1, JUST 1 point of armor, combat reflexes, etc. it has no effect

"But Ark, the sage can augment the waylay!"

indeed they can, but i dont think i have ever seen a sage augment it, and i doubt they will.

"But Ark, it can be increased to a much higher knockout through race and discipline choices!"

or you can just take assassin and have the over powered ability of a vorpal knockout.



i understand the reason for the knockout in sage, it is another ability, they have another option, the sage knows how to do more little things, i get it, is it "bad" no, not at all, however, would a little Crit strike be used more often....probobly, im fine either way i giess, but would prefer the Crit strike.

I wouldn't personally have an issue with Waylay if it was brought in-line with the charge times on the existing knockouts. It's the only Knockout that doesn't follow the same charge time as all the rest.

But to add, I personally feel that one of the actual ACTIVE abilities (Like Waylay, or the proposed CS) need to be brought down to basic sage so newbie sages actually have an in-game ability to use during the event.

Or just add that CS it to Basic Sage. Don't get me wrong, Utilize Resource is quite nice, but I don't feel that Sage is so OP overall that they don't deserve one more minor thing.

And yes, I've played Sages.

The sage's skills have no armor restrictions. Critical strike and Basic Knockout are both limited to medium armor.

I have augmented Waylay. Assassins, Empaths, Swashbucklers, and Arcanes are super vunerable to a KO because of their light armor restrictions.

Yeah, a lot of tough monsters are not going to be felled by a 1 KO. However when you have a small child who won't quit trying to wander into combat or Joe the farmer is getting into the King of the elves face and is about to ruin your peace negotions the skill is usually enough to take care of them. And in those situations it's really good to have the skill available.

I do understand the wanting there to be a basic sage ability that is usable in-game. I would be in favor of dropping waylay down to basic, decipher script to advanced and calling it good. No upping the power of waylay.

I am really alot more interested in hearing directly from sages than non sages.

Zeira wrote:The sage's skills have no armor restrictions. Critical strike and Basic Knockout are both limited to medium armor.

This is partially true, however, both Brawler and the Valkyn'Vi knockout, for example off the top of my head, have no armor restriction on the knockout either, and waylay STILL takes three times as long to charge. I'd be less inclined to argue the point, if it was a basic level skill, but I still think it should take less time to charge, at LEAST by five seconds, if not bringing it in line with the rest of the knockouts, or bringing the non armor penalty knockout charges UP in charge time, or taking armour restriction off of all knockouts. They should really all work the same. All the non-armour restriction knockout counts should be the same, and all restricted armour knockout counts should be the same. Currently, Valkyn'Vi gets a no armour two knockout for a five second charge, and brawlers get a 5 second no armor penalty knockout for a ten second charge. There may be others, but I don't want to look them up right now.

And to be fair, Mimic has armor restrictions, so I technically wouldn't have an issue with Waylay/CS having armor restrictions as well, if it came down to that, since it ALREADY exists in the Sage tree.

I understand that waylay is pretty much just there so a sage can augment it on himself, but I would personally take almost ANYTHING else in place of it, in it's current state.

Read/Write really is a boner skill in ANY class as well. It's fun from a roleplaying angle to say you can write six languages, but not very useful otherwise. I think it might actually be helpful if you just made it "Know Language" and included speaking it as well, since I've seen THAT come up more often than written, and there really is NO mechanic for speaking a language, or knowing what languages you actually speak in-game, even though NPCs (and PCs) speaking other languages DOES happen.

Dropping Mimic to 5 minutes a few years ago really brought it in-line with other Master path abilities by making it something useful under multiple circumstances, but considering it's only 1st level abilities, I still think it would be better if the armour restrictions were dropped from it completely, especially if the contention on Waylay is that it has no armor restrictions.

Not to be a downer or anything but it's not gonna change. Chris you made it pretty clear you won't be switching any of the rules. Or has your stance changed on that?

If you change Sage it effects anyone who want's to play a sage in the future as well, so everyone should add their imput. Should I not comment on parry because I have never played a warrior?

Just remember guys, the question is only which you'd like better. Any movement of current skills and/or restrictions of said skills are not really the focus of this question.

This comes up due to there being years of debate over Waylay being crap and needing a replacement. The Critical Stirke was put forth as a compareable power level direct replacement. Would you have preferred it or Waylay knowing combats you've been in, situations you've used Waylay, etc.

Zeira wrote:Should I not comment on parry because I have never played a warrior?

No, but not because you haven't played a warrior but becasue we'd mock and laugh at you.

Being the resident non combative sage in the game, my vote is for the Critical Strike. In the 4 seasons I've played Esmerelda, I've used Waylay a grand total of once. Yes you can buff the knockout higher, but usually I have better things to spend my augments on. I think it would be cool every once in the great while that Esmerelda gets into combat to be able to swing for 2 on occasion.

Just my two cents. Now if only my new position worked to order the rules as well...

I suspect chris wants to hear from people who have first hand experiance because they hear alot from everyone, but he really wants that first person. Not that he ONLY wants that.

Then yes, if Waylay stayed the same as it was now, with absolutely zero changes, I would rather have the Critical Strike.

I'm in agreement.

I've played a non combative sage and waylay almost never gets used. There are much better things to be mimicing and augmenting and so on.

It seems combat sages like the way lay skill and none combat sages like the crit strike skill. Interesting.

god I love Nelkie posts. Absolutely incomprehesible without the decoder ring.