:confused:

[Ark]

here we have two basic 20 skill point cost effects. please point out the obviously better one if you please

Level 1: Throw weapons—Passive skill The Grenadier may throw a legal Final Haven Safe coreless weapon for “1” damage. The Grenadier may also throw Spell Packets (See page 90) to simulate rocks for “1” damage.

Lesser Flame storm Time to cast: 1 minute Reload time: 1 minute 1 foot must remain planted, but you can then rotate in any direction. You can throw a packet for 1 damage for as long as you have packets. If you are interrupted you take 1 point of damage. The Wizard may stop this spell at anytime, but when you do you take 1 LP of damage.


lesser flame storm does not even do "magic" damage like its useful master level counterpart. perhaps it should be increased to "2 magic" ? or simply provide a link to throw weapons in its description suggesting the person take that instead?

[Kaylan Chargeender]

Lesser Flame storm is better because it does not require in game weapons, not even rocks. should a situation arise where the Pc is in an area devoid of rocks to gather and/or has had all his throwy things removed, he is hosed. The mage is not.

[Ark]

actually you are always considered to have "rocks" (as you are always allowed and considered to have packets) its simply a RP description. and because anything you can throw through a packet you can throw through a fist you can simply use a fist phys rep and swing "1" if you have no packet (same thing as holding the packet in your hand and taping somebody with it) sure you cannot block with it and take crush through it, but if your in a situation that requires it im sure you will be glad you have the ability. im surprised I end up having to explain this stuff, your power gaming kung fu is weak XD

in the end both skills give the same result. you have a source of infinite "1s" however lesser flame storm has a lot of restrictions and negatives.

[GM-Taki]

Lesser Flame Storm is one of 16 possible selections as a basic path skill. It offers a measure of packet versatility for wizards and, like many of the wizard abilities, is useful situationally. It cost varies from "free" as a part of your basic path to 20 points when purchased separately.

Throw weapons is the initial skill for a discipline dedicated to throwing packets. It's cost is also variable, from "free" as the first level of your initial discipline to 30 points as the first level of your fourth (or beyond) discipline.

Throw weapons is clearly the more useful combat skill, and if a PC were choosing to purchase either it or Lesser Flame Storm separately for the purpose of throwing packets for damage, Throw Weapons is the no-brainer choice.

In the case of Wizard, however, some measure of efficacy is traded for versatility. I'd have to look at an overall metric of 1st level spells vs. 1st level discipline skills, but my initial read would be that the decreased efficacy of Lesser Flame Storm vs. Thrown Weapons is warranted given the vast selection of abilities available to Wizards at that level.

[Kiel Reid]

Dammit...

Josh has a good point. I would make it "1 Magic". No one in their right mind takes the skill as it is now as far as I know.

[Ark]

Dammit...

Josh has a good point. I would make it "1 Magic". No one in their right mind takes the skill as it is now as far as I know.

don't sound so surprised

and Taki, lesser flame storm is also a level 1 Arcanist choice, putting it at the exact same cost as throw stone, be that 0 as 1st discipline, 20, or 30 points. though why you would pay 30 when you can always pay 20 for a basic wizard skill and pick it up that way is beyond me.

I do agree that versatility is a balancing factor, however the costs being a charge up time, interruptible, unable to move, and costing life. is slightly over tweaked.

[cole45]

its my opinion that most wizard spells are over burdened by limitations.

Even enchant weapon breaks the weapon which is a little silly at this point.

Phil was working on a rework of the spells.

I also feel like the focus items are way too good for their cost. which seems out of wack to me.

Most of the spells need magic damage. (like attack of the elements.)

a hand full are okay. (slick), time stop, phantom weapon, heroic stand etc.

[GM-Taki]

Josh, the only reason you'd pay 30 for it is if you were trying to access the skills available further up the discipline. If you are buying the individual skill, yeah, there's no reason not to purchase it individually out of wizard.

I wouldn't be opposed to making it (and all spell-based damage) "Magic".

[Ark]

I know, when talking with others the only things we could come up with in the favor of lesser fire storm were not related to the actual skill at all.

im not saying all the spells are bad or in need of a re-work, or that the system needs to be redone. I just think the spells are in some cases over tweaked or over balanced and because they are not over powered there ignored and left as is. once again, I know versatility is a balancing factor.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

Psssttt...

http://www.finalhavenlarp.com/phpBB2/vi ... =13&t=6079

2) Lesser Meteor Storm
Casting Time = 20 seconds
Component = NA

Once this spell is cast you can throw packets for "2 magic" for as long as you keep 1 foot planted on the ground. You may pivot around the 1 planted foot. If you are disrupted at any time while casting or using this spell you take "2" damage and must re-load the skill to use it again. The wizard can end this spell at any time at a cost of 2 damage.

Reload: This spell has a 1 minute reload time.

I agree with ya, but didnt want that to go to your head...


and, not that I am aware of any riule that states you always have rocks(please god let that not be the case because it would be idiotic) but......if a GM says the area you are in has no rocks....it has no rocks for throwing. period. Such circumstances SHOULD come up on occasion. If it doesnt thats a failure of the staff.

[Ark]

a) glad you agree

b) remove the thought of rocks, its simply a role playing example.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

uhm...no rocks? what the hell are we going to put in the spell packets then?!?!?!

[Marcus]

My packets as Garritt are usually portrayed by me as "sharp shards of metal, about the size of a coin".

I would way if anything making lesser Firestorm "1 Magic" would be fine. It's a long casting time, with a penalty for stopping, but then again a similar attack is the second level of Grenadier which costs 20 points (minimum, usually higher), and is 5 seconds just to to add "Magic" to a single ranged attack- which (usually) at that point ends up being "1 Magic" unless buying the two other grenadier skills as at the same time.

[Ark]

@Kaylen: I have been doing spell packets all wrong its seems. . .nobody tells me anything

@Marcus: I thought for sure you had its second level skill wrong, but no it really is that, 5 seconds to add magic to a single throw. I think that really needs to be changed and brought in line with enchant weapon.

[Marcus]

@Marcus: I thought for sure you had its second level skill wrong, but no it really is that, 5 seconds to add magic to a single throw. I think that really needs to be changed and brought in line with enchant weapon.

Oh, believe me I know about it. For all the things I can throw, that skill only lets me add the "Magic" addendum to the three attacks of the Grenadier Skill. So either a single packet delivered "1 Magic" or "2 Magic" every five seconds, or a larger 20-second "5 Magic Crush".

Never once used the skill in 4 years of playing Garritt, because even at advanced Empath I can do far better effects for less investment (namely "Lesser Channel" being 10 Magic in 20 seconds- twice the damage of Critical Shot, and requiring me only to physically circumvent a shield, which most NPCs are never wielding in the first place).

For that matter 4 attacks of "2 Magic" are a better investment than the "5 Magic Crush", unless the latter is used specifically for the on-hand burst damage as a single attack.