repel

[Ark]

a situational version of a situational skill.

perhaps it would have been better had banish not been placed right above it in a skill line? something to the effect of
-enchant weapon (anti ghosts and other things)
-repel (anti undead)
-disenchant (anti magic)
-something (more general purpose)

could always use another source of disenchant - Ark

[Marcus]

Repel nearly never works, and never as it's supposed to. It never stops supernatural monsters from attacking me just as violently they were before (wrong as per the rules for "Fear"), while I "hope" the NPC decides to take the damage as crush, but I am never actually sure.

Repel is the dump skill to get banish and headed weapon focus. There might as well be three skills to Undead Slayer that cost more to make the discipline cost the same in total, for all it matters.

[GM-Mike]

I can only assume you are remembering three years ago when repel was definitely a lame skill. Over the last two seasons, the skill, in response to your complaints, was a point of emphasis and I know for a fact that it worked repeatedly as it was supposed to. We even constructed two different plots where repel was the only skill that would be effective, at least one of which you were the person doing the repelling. There were countless other times during the past two seasons as we have focused on undead where it was used to great effect by you and others. So I cry foul!

You may now carry on (hey, at least you know we read these things!)

[Marcus]

I get you- I over-exaggerated things when i posted that and I apologize. A lot of times it does work. But I know against a ton of the supernatural stuff at the One-day I couldn't be sure whether repel worked at all, because I was trying to hit *everything* that seemed supernatural with it and everything (usually) just came at me swinging like it normally would have. No "no effect" given or anything, even in one-on-one fights where they were sure to hear me hitting them with something.

And... I don't always mean exclusively Final Haven either when I say things like that. The whole time I have played Marcus at FH I have been playing him at WH, too. I actually was the one that got the skill changed to "affects supernatural" because NPCs were claiming that it wouldn't affect them because the skill said "Undead", and they weren't "undead". I think there was at least one string of two-three events where that meant there was absolutely no "legal" target for me to use either Repel (or Banish) on, until Travis and others agreed that they should probably change them to affect other things because otherwise it was being put into such a narrow niche.

At least Banish is a "free" skill if it doesn't work. That's part of what makes it great,aside from opening it to other forms of supernatural threat.

I would definitely think very hard about using Repel if I wasn't personally able to heal myself back up, because like things such as "Root" it is very hard to tell if the NPC knows I even hit them with it ("Root" was a skill I literally dropped as my other character because it was so frustrating to get acknowledged by "NPC missiles"). It can get frustrating when you are burning through life points and have to go out of game to track down NPCs to ask if what you were doing had any effect on them.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

suggestion and question wrapped into one:

what if repel was replaced by a packet only attack that only affected undead (or other similar evil necro beings as GMs saw fit) that cost the same and did 3 vorpal to undead OR 3 times what the user can heal for (which would be what...6 for Marcus because of other skills bought?)

[Marcus]

Well, I know I've *heard* that Banish used to be that if it didn't kill the creature outright, it effectively did a "5 vorpal" to it. Can't confirm for sure.

Packet only would be a bummer, at least for me , because I roleplay both undead hunter skills as melee bases for Marcus (its to portray his hammer doing the work), and also because throwing a packet is damn hard with the encumbrance of my armor (I actually have a hard time reaching back to pull a hood up over my head, lol). I know right now it's nebulous whether it's a packet-only skill, or can be used either for ranged or melee.

The big part of Repel is that it's really hard to tell if the monster shrugged it off, or they didn't hear the call, but that's a downfall of LARP, honestly. Same with Calm, Root, Poison, Disease, etc.

[Ark]

root is not that bad as it has an obvious effect. poison and disease on the other hand are tricky, and because the effects work they way they do we have no real cue if it worked or not or how much of an impact it has. that's one of the reasons they are not used very often

[Marcus]

I had a very long string of horrible encounters at WinterHaven where nearly everything I hit with Magic Root just kept on barreling right at me, even in situations where there was no way they didn't hear the call. Though that is more due to NPC nature than the skill, as the skill is great at tying up enemies.

It's a unfortunate downfall of packets at LARP, especially in large combats. You can be pretty sure that unless it's a "30 Magic" the call you just threw is has about a 50% chance of not being heard or acknowledged. Packets are great in extremely small combats, but lose effectiveness drastically with mounting numbers or fighters involved.

It's one of the reasons why I use charms, repel, and banish exclusively as melee as Marcus. Figure it's a better chance of being heard, especially with LP skills.

[Kaylan Chargeender]

It's a unfortunate downfall of packets at LARP, especially in large combats. You can be pretty sure that unless it's a "30 Magic" the call you just threw is has about a 50% chance of not being heard or acknowledged. Packets are great in extremely small combats, but lose effectiveness drastically with mounting numbers or fighters involved.

have to disagree, as I come from LARPS where the packets were the size of a ping pong ball and involved combat with 50 ish people or more. Its more about the players tossing the packet not being loud or clear enough, and at times the target not feeling the packet because of phys rep armor or cold weather clothing. In those games a HOLD (game stop) to ensure the attack was heard and acknowledged was groused about like they are at FH. They are a fact of life in a LARP that the players there just accepted as a needed evil.

I suggest yell louder and through a bit harder?

[Kaylan Chargeender]

They also had rules that stipulated you MUST state NO EFFECT or RESIST within 3 seconds of bing hit ...OUT LOUD or you were affected by the attck even if you normally were not. The only exception was if a hold had to be called to inform a PC or NPC and they did not feel or hear the call. They could then call no effect or resist or such.

Ive seeb immine or resistant NPCs say nothing and thats really not ok.

[Marcus]

Believe me, Brian it's a real downside of packets. My other character Garritt is the epitome of a packet wielding character, and I have sometimes had to throw packets (at what I would judge) illegally hard to get even so-so results. The enemy of the packet effect is the "guided NPC missile" that is focused on heading for melee range.

I know I find (usually) myself having to rick getting right into the thick of melee danger to call to NPC's "hey, did you hear that effect?" in almost every combat, even if only a half dozen bodies are involved in the fight. That might be part of my gripe with Repel. Because for instance, a NPC affected by Charm-Calm is very obvious to me if they suddenly drop their attack value to straight "1"s all of a sudden from what they were swinging. I almost never have trouble using that skill fluidly, either in melee or at range.

I would be very ok with Repel if it only worked 50% of the time on supernatural monsters, if I knew for a definite fact that the other half were somehow resisting the affect and not just missing a LP-based call that is usually very relevant to the situation. "Immune" is just as valuable for me to hear as watching an NPC "take" some damage.

I know I find myself very apprehensive at the thought of spending the 30 second count to utilize "Magic Disease" at range as Garritt at WinterHaven, I can say that for sure.

[GM-Taki]

Just to clarify, while "supernatural" is a wider classification than "undead", it is not a blanket category that would apply to anything unnatural or non-natural. Zombies, vampires, ghouls, ghasts, wights, ghosts, mummies, liches and the like would all be considered "supernatural", even if some of them would be more "dead" than "undead". Demons, extra-planar creatures, magical beings, magically enhanced beings, lycanthropes and the like MIGHT be considered "supernatural" depending on their story or origin, but are not guaranteed to fall within that category.

The skill, as a 2nd level discipline skill, is measured against other 2nd level discipline skills in terms of utility. Vigor and Combat Reflexes are examples of universally applicable skills at 2nd level, and you'll notice that they are minor effects by comparison. "Resist Fear" is a comparable skill as well, and in this case its use is specifically situational and expressly defensive. "Repel" is not going to be universally useful, nor should it be given its level and balancing factors.

Lastly, yes, part of the nature of LARP is taking the impact of your skills on faith. Not everything works, and not everything that works has an immediately visible effect. The NPC staff at both games works very hard to ensure that PC's are treated fairly in combat and that we respond to your skills accordingly.