Healer Play test..warriors perspective

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:13 am

We originally had healing be per point instead of half/full. It was changed to half/full because those with more hit points are at a disadvantage with per point healing.

Thoughts?

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:45 am

What disadvantage were they at?

GM-Phil · Post by **GM-Phil** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:13 am

I believe he is referring to the fact in a point based Heal system that was playtested part of last year at Fh and WH, and will continue to be playtested at Wh due to its appearing success to players - a character with a higher LP total would take longer to heal for a single Healer than it would with the current ruleset for Healer.

I think Chris wants to know how other players than Healer feel about that, and those Healers that did get a chance to PLaytest the newer ruleset what are your feelings? The idea was to make Healers a more Charged based, active Healer, rather than a Time based reactive Healer who must sit out fo combat to be useful.

Let me know if I am wrong in my thinking Chris.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:02 pm

someone with alot of life taking longer to heal then someone with barely any life? that sounds down right. . .reasonable.

half/full is boring, and if you only took one point of damage from maybe a parry, your stuck there for as long as the person that got beat on half to death?

i think if you play smart and only take a point or two of damage, you should be able to get a bandaid stuck on your scratch and back out in a giffi, and if you got beat to within an inch of your life you have to sit back and let the doctors patch you up.

the new system was fun and interesting, the old half/full just seems lazy and boring, not interactive, etc.

BTW the base (1LP per 30sec) was picked because that means in 4 min (the old heal to full time) you could heal 8 LP. that is about as much as your basic warrior might have.
some people might spec for more health, most may have less. if you really think its not healing enough life that way (i think it is) you can add in skills, i belive there were, that let you heal 2 life per 30 sec, or 1 per 15 sec. or change the base to 1LP per 20sec (12LP in 4min)

dont change a good system because 1 person has 20 life, keeps getting beat down to 1 and complains they have to wait, thats a problem with the person, not the skill.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:45 pm

Honestly a person with more life should take less time to get well.

Kiel Reid · Post by **Kiel Reid** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:48 pm

I disagree.

If I stab a warrior 4 times and a rogue 4 times they still each got stabbed 4 times.

When the healer goes to heal them they each still have 4 stab wounds each.

The warrior can just take more stabs before he goes unconscious because he's a grizzled badass...It's just simple stabology.

Post by **GM-Taki** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Kiel, I think Chris is looking at it from a more conceptual perspective.

While I'm not taking a position on this, I can see an argument that people with more life should heal faster than other. Life points are a mechanical representation of the resiliency and robust health of a character. Those people who are better physical specimens would likely recover from wounds faster than those whose bodies were inherently weaker.

From your "stabological" (which I love) perspective, the warrior's higher LP total is indicative of his superior health and physiology. These traits, combined with the difference in proportionate damage* to high and low LP characters, could prompt a logical interpretation that higher LP totals should heal faster.

*And by "proportionate damage" I mean total damage contrasted to max LP. Stab a 12 LP Warrior for 5 Vorpal and you've messed him up a bit - RP might suggest a deep, bleeding gash across the chest or a puncture shot to a large muscile. Stab a 5 LP empath with the same hit and you've damn near killed the bastard - likely a sucking chest wound or severely severed internal artery. The mechanics say that those two injuries would recover at the same rate, which considering their comparative severity, doesn't make much sense. Again, this is only one possible conceptual interpretation of LP, but I think it is what Chris was getting at.

Kiel Reid · Post by **Kiel Reid** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:45 am

To be honest I just wanted to use the word stabology. Really the whole point is moot because if we are gonna start saying that this playtest doesn't work be cause of healing times then neither do the current rules. But I do understand that conceptualization...Is that even a word? I hope it is and more so that I spelled it correctly.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:40 am

If LP is a measure of physical damage taking capacity and life force; then having a bigger reserve means that reserve is going to take longer to refill, when epmtied, than a being with a smaller reserve. Its simple logic, since the energy that heals them doesn work faster for different beings.

Its no different than filling up your gas tank.

There is no way a warrior with a gallon of LP should take less time to heal than the rogue with a half gallon of LP, when the energy that refils thier life energy pool flows into them at the same rate.

Stabbing a warrior and an empath each for 5 points doesnt represent different wounds, its the same wound that they have different levels of ability to endure.
Shoot the guy that plays Rothek with a 9mm round, he may be in a near death situation; shoot Taki or myself and we are likely to make you eat the handgun if we get hands on ya.

Sorry Chis buddy, your just wrong on this one.

Post by **GM-Taki** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:05 am

While I'm not advocating for or against this for FH, I'll reiterate what I find to be a valid point for sake of the discussion.

To better understand the concept that I think Chris is advocating, try envisioning that LP is not just a reservoir, but also a representative statistic akin to "Constitution" or "Stamina" in other systems. Not only would a higher rating represent the body's ability to absorb damage, it also represents better overall health and healing function.

By that logic, a person with low LP has limited capacity to absorb punishment because their body is frail and underdeveloped and would thereby recover more slowly. Likewise, a more healthy and robust individual would heal faster precisely because their body is stronger and more vital.

Looking at it, the current mechanic for both healing and natural healing represents this concept. Since the 12 LP warrior and the 5 LP empath both naturally heal to max in 8 hours (or are Healed via skill in 4 minutes), the characters with a higher life total does, in fact, gain LP at a faster rate than their lower-life counterpart.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:27 am

Thanks David that is exactly what I am talking about. I would add that the LP's also represent your over all ability to move in combat so that wounds are not as dangerous. For example, a trained boxer knows how to roll with a punch so that the punch is less devastating than to an untrained person. In other words, LP's are also a type of damage mitigation mechanic, but instead of subtracting from incoming damage we add to your over all total.

Kiel I want to make something very clear. I am not in any way saying that the play test was a failure. I understand that nearly every healer is overwhelmingly pleased with the play test. I want to make sure there is a proper discussion because previously we had healing set up per point and many many people were very against it. Big arguments..throwing tables..dogs and cats living together..it was anarchy.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:52 am

The healing history as Chris describes along with the reaction to it is correct. I was there. I saw. I know. In fact everything in his post about the reaction is factual...all except that dogs and cats piece. Everyone knows that can never happen.

Arjan · Post by **Arjan** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:09 pm

Personally, I like the idea of the higher LP character being able to heal faster for the given statements. BUT, at the same time, i can see them healing at the same rate as the lower LP characters for one reason. A simple thing called MAGIC. Since this type of magic doesn't exist in our world, it's up to the staff to decide on how it works. Does it just increase the healing rate (timed) or does it heal a set amount (point)? Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing both styles within the game. The point system would get the *squishier* characters back in the fight more effectively and the timed would get the *harder* characters back more effectively. A character could then use the different healing techniques as their perspective/training on how their magic effects wounds. Maybe have a different skill branch for which way a person wants to take their character and not allow them to take the other style? Just an idea.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:34 pm

Ah a neat idea give both options and let the players decide how they want to build their character? What do others think?

Smitty19 · Post by **Smitty19** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:24 pm

Heres how Me and CJ both feel...

I think LP and Combat Reflexes are being confused. I really think that the Warrior types already have the advantage of knowing how to handle themselves in battle because of CR... It doesnt mean that since they have Higher LP as well that they should heal faster, it means that they have a hardier body to withstand more damage, but it should take its toll trying to refill its reserves.

I see LP as the actual "Blood and Guts" of a character, that is why Vorpal is so damaging.

When you lose all your combat reflexes, you start to slow and your defenses are not as sharp, but you are not taking Damage yet...

Now when you reach 0 LP that is much different, you are bleeding and battered and dieing... Yes a Warrior took longer to get there, because they are trained to do it, and their body works through that pain because that is what they do... They shouldnt heal their LP any faster than anyone else...They just have more of a well to draw from...