How do you people feel about damage per secodn in our game?
The way things traditionaly go the more DPS you can out out the less armor and life you get but the warrior can definitly out DPS alot of different groups even if they do not have surge damage like rogues and empaths.
What are your thoughts?
DPS
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DPS
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
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Salvatore_Tenhammers
- Regular Visitor
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:46 pm
No your not understanding me.
Right now we have 2 different types of skills.
One skill raises the amount of damage per swing and the other is a huge amount of damage after a set amount of time.
The timed skils work fine but the amount you can do per swing can go up without a corresponding decrease in soak. For example a warrior/knight can swing for 2 or maybe 3 or 4 or 5 while having one of the highest soak combinations in the game.
Right now we have 2 different types of skills.
One skill raises the amount of damage per swing and the other is a huge amount of damage after a set amount of time.
The timed skils work fine but the amount you can do per swing can go up without a corresponding decrease in soak. For example a warrior/knight can swing for 2 or maybe 3 or 4 or 5 while having one of the highest soak combinations in the game.
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
-
Salvatore_Tenhammers
- Regular Visitor
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:46 pm
all comments based on the FH system
trying to compare wich is better is going to be very hard, as it comes down to personal preference. if what is being played by the PC's right now is any way of telling, damage after a set amount of time is the preference right now.
however certain factors can throw off the entire debate, skills, resists, immunities, other forms of combat, etc.
even if you had a monster that swung death and had 5 million soak, he could still be killed in one hit in the FH system.
the main difference i see personally between the two is surprise and illusion of damage, the rouge has both. base damage can not go higher than 5 ever in this system. so if you do manage to swing that amount, only the weakest 0 level character ever is going to go down in one hit without time to react and run, fight, etc.
however with damage after a set amount of time you may not be doing as much damage over time as base damage, but your damage dealt in one hit will be high, thus the illusion of damage. this also provides the chance the your opponent will not have enough health to take the hit, and therefore not react, surprise.
the following are unassisted damages, no items, potion, spells, etc. . . i belive
as well as skill points required to purchase, also overlooked i feel
highest damage over time
melee - 15 damage over 20 seconds - 200 points
ranged - 33 magic over 60 seconds - 150 points
ranged 2 - 10 vorpal 55 seconds - 90
highest base damage
single weapon - 4 - 240 points
duel weild - 2 - - 150
crush single weapon - 3 - 240
vorpal single weapon - 3 - 240
trying to compare wich is better is going to be very hard, as it comes down to personal preference. if what is being played by the PC's right now is any way of telling, damage after a set amount of time is the preference right now.
however certain factors can throw off the entire debate, skills, resists, immunities, other forms of combat, etc.
even if you had a monster that swung death and had 5 million soak, he could still be killed in one hit in the FH system.
the main difference i see personally between the two is surprise and illusion of damage, the rouge has both. base damage can not go higher than 5 ever in this system. so if you do manage to swing that amount, only the weakest 0 level character ever is going to go down in one hit without time to react and run, fight, etc.
however with damage after a set amount of time you may not be doing as much damage over time as base damage, but your damage dealt in one hit will be high, thus the illusion of damage. this also provides the chance the your opponent will not have enough health to take the hit, and therefore not react, surprise.
the following are unassisted damages, no items, potion, spells, etc. . . i belive
as well as skill points required to purchase, also overlooked i feelhighest damage over time
melee - 15 damage over 20 seconds - 200 points
ranged - 33 magic over 60 seconds - 150 points
ranged 2 - 10 vorpal 55 seconds - 90
highest base damage
single weapon - 4 - 240 points
duel weild - 2 - - 150
crush single weapon - 3 - 240
vorpal single weapon - 3 - 240
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
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If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
So here are my thoughts on DPS in the game. And by damage per second I think we are referring to non charged damage vs charged skill damage.
A couple of basic thoughts on my theory.
- On average you can make 2 numbered calls in a second clearly.
- Ready indicates that the defender is aware that you are going to attack them but does not have a charged skill ready.
- Not ready indicates that the defender is unaware of the attack and has does not have a skill charged but has a weapon out.
- Helpless indicates that the person is unaware of the attack, has no skill charged, and has no weapon ready.
So that being said let's look at a couple of theories.
Ready Defender
You can't ever predict how this will go because two or more people are involved and everybody's fighting skill is different.
Not Ready Defender
Let's assume that it takes 2 seconds for the defender to go from not ready to ready.
Non charged damage 4-4-4-4=16
Top charged damage 18-1-1-1=19 ( I used Greater Channel because you can move with as opposed to Greatest Channel)
Here are some of the disadvantages to those styles.
Non charged - You can be disarmed or shattered, You can't use any other skills or potions, you can only have one weapon in your hand, 1 potion can negate all of the damage (Power of the Vampire).
Charged - Attacks can be resisted by skills easily (Parry, Resist Magic, Defensive Matrix), Follow up attacks tend to be weaker than initial attack. Overall damage in the long term is shorter.
Regardless of all these numbers I feel as though DPS is a touch too high since the addition of Weapon Specialization. I feel adamant about this because for some reason during the last rule overhaul damage and soak went up across the board which I believe was not the best direction to go. Yes I agree rouges needed a little boost. Yes I'm glad helmet was added as an armor location making it much more streamlined.
But when warriors got a skill that simply upped their non active skill damage I wasn't thrilled but I hadn't seen it action so I reserved judgment. Now after seeing it all year at both chapters I'm a little leery. I think it deviates away from the idea of low numbers, and that's one of the things I like about this game.
A couple of basic thoughts on my theory.
- On average you can make 2 numbered calls in a second clearly.
- Ready indicates that the defender is aware that you are going to attack them but does not have a charged skill ready.
- Not ready indicates that the defender is unaware of the attack and has does not have a skill charged but has a weapon out.
- Helpless indicates that the person is unaware of the attack, has no skill charged, and has no weapon ready.
So that being said let's look at a couple of theories.
Ready Defender
You can't ever predict how this will go because two or more people are involved and everybody's fighting skill is different.
Not Ready Defender
Let's assume that it takes 2 seconds for the defender to go from not ready to ready.
Non charged damage 4-4-4-4=16
Top charged damage 18-1-1-1=19 ( I used Greater Channel because you can move with as opposed to Greatest Channel)
Here are some of the disadvantages to those styles.
Non charged - You can be disarmed or shattered, You can't use any other skills or potions, you can only have one weapon in your hand, 1 potion can negate all of the damage (Power of the Vampire).
Charged - Attacks can be resisted by skills easily (Parry, Resist Magic, Defensive Matrix), Follow up attacks tend to be weaker than initial attack. Overall damage in the long term is shorter.
Regardless of all these numbers I feel as though DPS is a touch too high since the addition of Weapon Specialization. I feel adamant about this because for some reason during the last rule overhaul damage and soak went up across the board which I believe was not the best direction to go. Yes I agree rouges needed a little boost. Yes I'm glad helmet was added as an armor location making it much more streamlined.
But when warriors got a skill that simply upped their non active skill damage I wasn't thrilled but I hadn't seen it action so I reserved judgment. Now after seeing it all year at both chapters I'm a little leery. I think it deviates away from the idea of low numbers, and that's one of the things I like about this game.
The weapon specialization idea waht from me so I take responsibility here. My thought is I wanted to create flavor skill so that different play styles got a boots, mainly a 2 handed skill.
After more thought I am fine with a high damage kensi type of person who is good wielding a two handed sword but perhaps wears little to no armor.
Right now that is not the case...
After more thought I am fine with a high damage kensi type of person who is good wielding a two handed sword but perhaps wears little to no armor.
Right now that is not the case...
Chris
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
I be one of the gamemasters so e-mail me questions if you have them
well i have yet to actually see any people swing 4 as base damage, and single weapon is out classed by duel weilding and sword and board especially with the amount of ways to gain either.
however from a GM standpoint if it is felt that is is broken and the only way to fix it is to add an armor restriction to it i would say medium, as that would bring it in line with sure footed.
however from a personal standpoint between me and my brother. as we are both very good fighters, me with about 4 years, and him over a decade of fighting. . . single weapon is underpowered, and is never a favorite in any combat system that does not have significant bonuses to it. and almost no main fighter in all of FH only uses 1 weapon unless they have to
however from a GM standpoint if it is felt that is is broken and the only way to fix it is to add an armor restriction to it i would say medium, as that would bring it in line with sure footed.
however from a personal standpoint between me and my brother. as we are both very good fighters, me with about 4 years, and him over a decade of fighting. . . single weapon is underpowered, and is never a favorite in any combat system that does not have significant bonuses to it. and almost no main fighter in all of FH only uses 1 weapon unless they have to
If it storms or snows, or the sun smiles on us. The day burning hot, or ice cold of night. Dusty are our faces, but joyful are our minds! - Panzerlied
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.
______________________________________________________________________
Brian: Do not respond, quote, argue, debate, or try to start a conversation about anything I say or post, directly or indirectly, specifically or implicitly. At the very least I will consider it stalking, and going further consider it harassing, belittling, demeaning, mocking, or insulting. I will immediately report it as such and push to request that your forum privileges be at least suspended or terminated, and going further request your LARP attendance privileges be suspended or terminated as per the Final Haven Code of Conduct. this is your notice and warning.
______________________________________________________________________
If you have an opinion on something I say, or a particular topic, but would prefer to keep your opinion private (or complain) then CLICK HERE! to send a private message to GM-Mike the head GM and let him know.