way off topic

[GM_Chris]

I don’t think I am explaining myself well.

Forget about witch for a moment.

The question is if Magic is a religious theme. Witch's use "magic" and it is part of their belief structure. Since it is a part of their belief structure and we have fantasy magic then we have a religious theme to the game.

How can I then say no religious themes when our entire magical universe is a magical theme?

I, at least previously to this thread, did not see magic at a religious theme, but now I am rethinking my position. If magic is a religious theme then the answer in my brain (to be consistent) is not to allow other religious themes, but to remove the current one. That is why I want to remove magic.

What is very confusing to me is if witch hunter rises to the civil rights level as nigger then why are the people who see it that way playing the game? Temple, if you went to your parents and said you play a game where white people dress like black people and act stupid would they approve? How can you in good conscience then continue to play FH or CARPS while it uses such terminology?

How can others who complain not only continue to come, but then pick the discipline?

I guess if people all boycotted an event based on our offensive terms I would be much more inclined to think its offensive.

Its like bowl games. No one likes them so they go to the government to stop them! Bah just stop giving the colleges money and I bet we would have a play off system.

[Anon]

It's a game....its pretend...if people get offended then they are fools because only a fool would take what happens in a game as fact or an actual belief.

Is it really that hard to draw the line between game and reality? So there are racists in game, who cares its not like they are real racists. Who cares if there are people practicing a fake religion in game, its not like they are real heretics. If I go around killing thousands in game does that make me a murder? No, cause its only in game and not real. Same goes with beliefs and personalities.

If you cannot just have fun and separate what is fake and what is real, you need to evaluate whether you should be playing the game in the first place.

These are harsh words, sorry if I offend but I mean every word. I have grown tired of people complaining about this king of stuff and this is my final word on the matter.

HOWEVER that said, whatever the GMs decide, unless completely ludicrous I will go along with cause in the end they run the shots, not me.

*cough*start the flame*cough*

[cole45]

I, at least previously to this thread, did not see magic at a religious theme, but now I am rethinking my position. If magic is a religious theme then the answer in my brain (to be consistent) is not to allow other religious themes, but to remove the current one. That is why I want to remove magic.

So we have to remove every single in game that is a religious theme.

Alchemy, swords, battle, talking and running are themes in other religions, so we need to remove those too right? according to your above argument, the answer is YES.

there would be NOTHING left to play.

and your arugment i am bias aginst witches is an Ad Hominim fallacy as well. attacking the arguer and not the subject.

[GM_Chris]

Sorry Travis wasnt meant as an attack against you. I was finding that perhaps my own bias on the subject was contributing to me wanting to keep witch hunter in the game. I figured if I were a witch then perhaps I would feel differently and was only meant to challenge you on the subject as well.

[cole45]

I am not saying your attacking me, i'm saying that calling me bias against witches is debate fallacy, meaning it does not address the actual argument, and instead targets the arguer. classic debate tactic.


IS there a reason your focusing ONLY on the things in Wiccan belief? as I pointed out, there are religious practices that involves swords to, if by youre logic, you take magic out, you must by your logic take the swords out too.

[GM_Chris]

Because other people didnt bring it up

[GM_Chris]

Well you brought it up, but you also brought up the spegetti monster which I consider the equivilant to calling a person a nazi in any debate.

[Rhul]

Isn't it simply easier to just say that a player can never, in any shape or form get any kind of in-game benefit from roleplaying or being a part of a religious belief or faith, wether real or fictional?

Because purely from a gaming standpoint, I can understand being within the limits of the rules (i.e, Rhul can't swing for more damage because I think he's that strong), but I don't want anyone telling me what I can and can't roleplay. Rhul has been recognising Phanterra as a living, maybe even nearly sentient system (the Nav'ii from Avatar being a close example), but I have never recieved flak about it, because it's presented in a respectful, low-key roleplaying fashion.

I'll even bet this thread is the first time some (or most) people even realized I was playing Rhul with that belief. And that's the goal I was going for. Out of respect, I only roleplay that aspect with players that won't be offended by it. But I'll stand firm against anyone who tries to tell me I can't roleplay that facet of him with people who don't mind it.

As for the magic argument, I agree more with Travis. You can concievably attach a religious context to nearly anything in the game if you are willing to make the leap. I just realized that Rhul being a giant ape who can read and converse intelligently comes eerily close to the missing link argument, which has religious vs evolution uncomfortabilities for some. Think nothing of if he was a faun, with the image of a goat....but if a player told me that because of that innate reason I couldn't play him, I'd tell them where to get off, no matter who they were.

Remember, people. If something is happening in an in-game scene that makes you personally uncomfortable, simply walk away or make a safety call (that's what they're there for). Because it's just a game.

[GM_Chris]

Ok good point about the ape thing.

Ok so lets say we found out that a group of people were not comming because of that very reason. What if this entire post was about you being a talking ape.

[Rhul]

No, it's not a good point, I actually meant it as a stupid point. Garritt (my other character at WH) could be argued as a full-blown possession case.

Ok so lets say we found out that a group of people were not comming because of that very reason. What if this entire post was about you being a talking ape.

If that were the case, I'd shrug and say 'sucks to be them', our game has midgets with sideburns, too. Be afraid!!

[dier_cire]

Chris, I got your point on magic being a religous theme, however, I ignored it since it really falls into the same thing as With Hunter. Niether term is anywhere close to being a common religous term. Think about magicians who do sleight of hand tricks at parties. Should they change their name? Should every D and D book be re-written? Should all video games be changed? If someone is going to be slighted by either Witch hunter or the use of magic, they are probably zealotish enough that they wouldn't play the game in the first place.

It'd be like you playing a game where they prayed, used crosses, and a had a God Slayer sword but there was no belief in God. Heck, playing Serenity would be a close second. Would you play a game that had holy men in it but most of them didn't really believe in God?

[Dallid]

Cracker Hunter

Starbucks Lore
The Cracker Hunter is given a hint as to the location of crackers in the area.

Cloud of Moths
The inherent danger to the cracker’s sweater vest causes an immediate fear effect.

Stock Options.
15 count to read the opening paragraph. The lure is strong drawing all crackers to the cracker hunter as a Taunt effect.

Look Who’s Movin’ In
30 Count of strutting and otherwise calling attention to oneself. The presence of a non-cracker in the neighborhood causes all crackers within a 10 ft radius to disappear as a lash Banish effect.

[dier_cire]

Look Who’s Movin’ In
30 Count of strutting and otherwise calling attention to oneself. The presence of a non-cracker in the neighborhood causes all crackers within a 10 ft radius to disappear as a lash Banish effect. All resources gained by crackers affected by this skill will be cut in half next event due to "Movin' Expenses"

had to help it out a bit.

[Goonter]

In searching I found that there are modern day necromancers.

Thoughts?

Really??? In that case I am stocking up on garlic, silverware, and bludgeoning weapons.

[Atrum Draconus]

Chris, I weighed my disdain with the term witch hunter, not the term witch by itself, against my desire to enjoy the game. And it's not nearly as important as race to me. But this isn't really about me it's about other people that may have in the past or want to play the game in the future. So even though I don't like it at all I still play. I never use the term, any time there's a chance to denounce the term I do. I don't see the same problem you do with magic, but I understand where you're coming from. If you don't want any religious themes at all, like Travis says, that's going to be nearly impossible because there are literally thousands of religions that all have their own idiosyncrasies and religious themes. Name an activity or an item and there's probably a religion out there that holds it dear or uses it in part of their doctrine and practices.

Talking apes aren't real life beings, to me there is a HUGE difference between the book talking about hunting a group of real life flesh and blood people and make believe people. I wouldn't have any problem with an elf hunter, a tsunotaur hunter or a talking ape hunter. Maybe it's because of my experiences growing up that it's like that, maybe not.

To answer your necromancer question, not only are they a type of witch, but they took a fantasy thing and used it not the other way around. There are furries too but I don't think we should get rid of beastmen.

Doug Best Discipline EVAH!!!11!!!1!