A few questions

Post by **GM-Mike** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:18 pm

KO did and does work differently than disease and poison. 3 poison is a damaging effect that, like normal, comes off armor first, then life and if it hits life you are poisoned. 3 ko is a non damaging effect that never does any damage ever.

As for the vorpal poison knockout, I too would argue, by the rules, that you would be both poisoned and knocked out, but I can certainly see why people might think differently

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:07 pm

i figured the poison was hitting there life, wether damaging or not, so you take poison.

im going to throw this out thre as an idea

could you have knockout just be an add on to a swing, like poison.

you swing 1, you charge a knockout for 10 seconds, you swing 1 knockout, the knockout hits AFTER the damage,

thus a rouge could charge a 9, add on a knockout, and do a 9 knockout, if the person is wearing 6 points of armor the 9 drops the armor and does 3 life damage, then the knockout hits, sleeping them

Woden · Post by **Woden** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:00 pm

Per the rulebook.

Armor cannot protect against vorpal damage. This type of damage by passes armor and the character is affected by any other effects attached to the call.

and as a side note..

Parry/Avoid Blow; A Warrior may spend a life point to reduce the damage delivered from any single frontal melee attack that has a number in the call to 0. This includes knockout, crush, vorpal, poison, etc. In addition, they may also parry disarm attacks.

Soo.....

"3 vorpal poison knockout" could be..
'Parried' as its effects could be reduced to Zero.
'Resisted' negating its effects.
OR
'take the effects' which include Poison & KO

*Kandium armor basically negates the 'vorpal' making it..
"3 poison knockout" which could be..
'Parried' as its effects could be reduced to Zero.
'Resisted' negating its effects.
'Negated' by Armor greater than 3.
OR
'take the effects' which include Poison & KO

Post by **GM-Mike** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:05 pm

I interpret therules as Todd does. Nice when there's GM consistency, huh

Smitty19 · Post by **Smitty19** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:12 pm

Even better when cross chapter gm's are consistent as well!

Because that is how I read the rules as well...

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:00 pm

wow. that's a lot of posts going over the same crap we went over like 5 years ago.

Resists have _always_ resisted the whole call with the single exception of poison which was changed this year. One common rule for resists is simple and easy for all to understand. It's not overpowered as it's still a life point which are limited.

Immunities have always been intended to be just that portion of the call. Look in the rulebook for how the immunities work. The Guthrie version specifically states the Fear call, not any call with the word Fear in it. The Beastman and Eater of the Dead versions state 'may not be diseased', not that they ignore calls with the word disease. These are important distinctions and were there for a reason (most from day 1 of the game).

Now, this may all be different for field rulings, but the rules aren't really in favor of immunity = unlimited resists nor do they support resist only resisting that portion of the call.

As for KO, yeah, Todd is definitely correct 100% there. any effect must hit life points to work. It's in Understanding Special Damage Calls.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:54 pm

i dont know how kandium is worded, but i think it was your immune to vorpal, if thats true, with new rules, your immune to every call with vorpal in it, master assassin, master swash, level 3 pikeman, level 3 samuria

an item should not be that good

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:36 am

kandium turns vorpal to NORMAL. not immune.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:38 am

Reid,

It was decided by the GMs this last off season that immunities resist the whole call. I am still for this, but I'm sure it can be looked at this next off season.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:09 am

kandium turns vorpal to normal and only when your current kandium armor total is at least 9 points. It's meant to stop one vorpal attack but is consistenty misinterpreted. Just one of the reasons why I would be in favor of getting rid of all of those things

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:12 am

http://www.finalhavenlarp.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=4687

where's that exactly?

If you decided it in the off season, it should be there. What you really have is a field ruling to accomodate the players who don't read the rules.

Atrum Draconus · Post by **Atrum Draconus** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:44 am

Woden wrote:Per the rulebook.
Armor cannot protect against vorpal damage. This type of damage by passes armor and the character is affected by any other effects attached to the call.
and as a side note..
Parry/Avoid Blow; A Warrior may spend a life point to reduce the damage delivered from any single frontal melee attack that has a number in the call to 0. This includes knockout, crush, vorpal, poison, etc. In addition, they may also parry disarm attacks.
Soo.....

"3 vorpal poison knockout" could be..
'Parried' as its effects could be reduced to Zero.
'Resisted' negating its effects.
OR
'take the effects' which include Poison & KO

*Kandium armor basically negates the 'vorpal' making it..
"3 poison knockout" which could be..
'Parried' as its effects could be reduced to Zero.
'Resisted' negating its effects.
'Negated' by Armor greater than 3.
OR
'take the effects' which include Poison & KO

I've always though of it like this. I don't understand how anyone could think they don't take both effects if they are in the call. Either way you look at it, the only question or confusion should be do you take 3 points of damage. Which to me, the number in front of the call is applied to every effect in the call so it's like 3 vorpal, 3 poison, 3 ko rolled into one call except you don't take the damage 2x. Any other way you look at it you have 3 vorpal (effect) and a surging effect.

Mike I when I say poison, disease and ko work the same I only mean they all have to get past armor and cr, breaking it down to it's basics and not that they work exactly the same. Like I said we have 2 types of PC special attacks, those that need to reach your life to affect you and those that describe how damage affects you but don't have to reach your life.

So what we have gleaned from this thread is that everyone percieves the rules differently, not a surprise as I've heard some CRAZY interpretations of very plain words on paper. But the GM's also need to decide exactly how combined calls effect people. Like whether or not the number in front of a call that includes multiple descriptors and KO is damage or whether it should be applied to everything in the call. And whether armor and cr work like a resist or immunity to KO where you don't take any effect in the entire call or if it's now the exception.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how this is so much easier, especially since it makes no logical sense at all and makes immunities so much better than they should be. You put it on a scale and the many things outweigh the one by 3 fold. But whatever, at least I don't have to deal with me like the FH GM's do. Heh, I suddenly feel very sorry for Stark and Melissa.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:37 pm

Actually I think all the GMs are on the same page. I'm just posing questions to see what other people think

It's been interesting.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:05 pm

I have to agree with the GM's also! Does this mean the sky is falling and the world will be coming to an end shortly

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:52 pm

2012

so we still have a couple of years