Queries and opinions

[Wyrmwrath]

All I can say is hat things live invisibility and short range teleportation and other game stop/hand on the head powers existed in the last LARP I played for years, and there were FEW issues, and the issues tended to be with new players not understanding ( which is the case with ALL the rules for new players) or with the conflict of powers. I have even stood in a room, "invisable", while a group discussed the manner in which they would kill my PC ( but ill admit to not being able to not grin like the cheshire cat since they now knew OOC that thier plan had no chance to work).

[Ian_McAllister]

While I could go either way on the "Passwall" issue.. I was thinking of other skills other than "Critical Strike" for Assassins. So far the one idea I have liked is this. Sorry it is not non-combat, haven't had a good idea there yet.

Lvl 2. Precision attack - (Only useable with daggers or short swords) - With this skill the Assassin is capable of sizing up his opponent and knows where and when to strike with deadly precision. With a 15 count the assassin can hit a target for 1 vorpal, the target must be chosen ahead of time.

I was thinking of this as if you get someone who invests into Assassin you can stack it with the Lvl 3 skill and be able to give your target a nasty little surprise. As for those that just get the first 2 levels, I can't think of how a 15 sec. 1 vorpal will be all that powerful.. but that is why I am hoping people will give me some feedback on this idea.. as I am sure people will.. (grin).

hopefully I will have more ideas later.

[General Maximus]

I have to totaly agree with Mike. My problem with Passwall is there is no counter. Every other skill in game has a counter expect Passwall. It's PC killing skill with no counter, to me, that just not right.

[GM_Chris]

Passwall had a counter it was called being awake and posting a guard

I kep wondering if I should post since I already posted my oppinion, BUT I will anyways

I understand that other LAPRS have the hand over the head thing and use it to simulate a bunch of different OOG skills. I understand that in those LARPS it is fun and works. Please understand that I have grown to HATE it very very very passionatly.

The first game of FH had zero hand over the head moments for NPC's or PC's. As the game has progressed and we have brought in more and more people from different LARPS the hand over the head thing has creeped in. Is it even in our book of rules???? I think the game had a better feel when we had zero or near zero hand over the head moments.

I am not in anyway trying to make anyone see my point of view, but I am making sure everyone understands my point of view since I am on the rule making side of thigns.

[Kalphoenix]

I have to totaly agree with Mike. My problem with Passwall is there is no counter. Every other skill in game has a counter expect Passwall. It's PC killing skill with no counter, to me, that just not right.

I have never actually seen passwall used as a tool to kill someone, which probably defeats it's original intention anyway, you know, as an assassin skill.

To say that it is a PC killer with no counter is a little silly. That's kind of like saying "Pick Lock" is a PC killer that doesn't have a counter too. Maybe we should take that out because it suffers from the same problem as Passwall. Even if someone is being really quiet on the other side of the "wall," if it's not a real wall, even if the lock picker is being really quiet, someone on the inside is going to know they are there. There are a lot of skills that could be considered PC killers, if you want to take the slippery slope angle with it. I agree with Chris though, the counter to passwall is easy and something available to everyone: Pay attention.

It isn't a combat skill, it is a utility skill and I think that is why a lot of people are unhappy with the replacement; they want something with flavor, not another boring combat ability. I can sympathize; I don't LARP to play World of Warcraft in real life. Taking out flavor and utility turns it into just number crunching. Some people like that, but I despise that. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it from time to time, but I think it's a shame that people have to pick skills based on Min-Maxing and what's best from a combat standard. I know FH is a combat LARP, but I am curious if that is intentionally it's main focus.

Now, from the standpoint of a pen&paper GM, I will say that things that allow PCs to pass through walls or fly make it hard to design a challenging dungeon or puzzle and maybe that was factored into the decision making as well.

I'm going to start another thread on "out of game", because I don't want to hijack this one. I found I was getting off track as far as passwall conversation goes.

[GM-Mike]

Once again, we are not against flavor skills in assassin, just the out of game thing. I have yet to hear a flavor skill to replace passwall.

[GM_Chris]

Yeah this isnt about flavor, hard to design a dungeon, we are a combat LARP. It is about the OOG thing. Bast reccomendations if you are unhappy is to come up with a new skill without the OOG.

BTW I would not lable us a combat larp. Skills dont determine what the game is plot does. We have alot of plots that are non combat.

That would be telling an SCA person who is going to a chapter that learns craft that all they do is fight because that is all they have rules for.

[dier_cire]

Just for note, countering Passwall by paying attention creates the "You meta gamed seeing me" scenario. Using it in a cave is metagaming the fact that you know the walls are made of plastic. On pen and paper, you wouldn't know how thick the walls are (unless the GM gave you a top view map) and thus wouldn't use it to get to another area unless you knew it was safe.

Also, the biggest complaint I've read is that it was a cool unique skill. Why do you really need a skill to be unique? I made this same argument when they changed the warrior skills and it was wrong then too. I just got creative and Ka is still unique. I just had to rethink my role in the game. The new assassin skill set actually allows for some very nice combos.

When the Witch Hunter become a PC killer class?

[Kalphoenix]

I didn't mean to insinuate that FH is JUST a combat LARP, I've seen plenty of plots that were resolved without combat. Phantera is also a rough world in turmoil and combat makes for interesting situations, story wise and I accept that.

I'm just curious what other people come to FH to do. Do you come mainly for the combat? For the IC socialization/roleplaying? For the quests/storytelling? Because of the nature of the system (Which I personally think works in it's favor), I doubt most people come for "leveling up" and becoming more powerful, skill wise, since it taps out eventually (Which I like, don't get me wrong, because it takes the focus away from the paper).

Passwall doesn't affect me much one way or the other, and I never really had any intention of making an assassin anyway, I just have a tendency to play empathy and see how I would feel if I WERE in that situation.

And while I know some people are upset about specific changes like druid (loosing the wilderness survival resources is kind of a bummer), I'm glad to see them get scout, especially since I've never actually seen the other aspect of wilderness survival utilized (The 1/2 time traveling and less chance of being attacked between games thing). I like the new utility with the 4th level skills.

Honestly, I can't lie...I don't know what could be a flavor skill that you wouldn't consider OOG. Roi/Ravinal had a good suggestion at one time regarding this (I think about this time last year), but it was considered to involve too much OOG. Most flavor skills that I can think of in-game now are OOG in nature. Other than passwall, what's considered a flavor skill to you?

I like Phil/Ian's suggestion, actually. It's combat-based, sure, but it's more unique, at least.

[dier_cire]

Phil's idea isn't bad. Maybe slightly over-powered for a level 2 skill, but my concern is the door it leave open for later. Having any vorpal at level 2 makes any new additional (or current hidden) disciplines harder to balance. As well, it affects spells and potions. The 3 damage vs 1 vorpal, pc-wise, is effectively the same, but it can make some npcs a lot easier.

Honestly, the assassin has two unique skills currently. Before, it had two. Sure, those two have changed but they are no less powerful.

[General Maximus]

There is a counter skill in game or mechanic for every skill in game expect for passwall and disenchant. Everyother skill has a counter. Picklocks can be counter with better locks, traping the locks, setting spells on the lock, etc.. Pass wall can't and leads to a meta gaming issue when it comes to PC vrs PC.
I think Assasin has some of the coolest abilities in game that are all unquie. The assasin is deadly and is meant to kill so should not all the abilities lead to killing people?
Disguise - Unquie
Extra Crtical stricke - Unquie
Use Posion - Unquie
Sleep - Unquie

[GM_Chris]

what skill blocks knockout?

[Kalphoenix]

Armor. It doesn't always block it, but it gives people a better chance. Kind of like the above example about being able to make better locks to counter lockpicking. It's not exactly a counter though, in either case, it's prevention.

[WayneO42]

You can also parry knockout if it is delivered from the front

[GM_Chris]

Yep I forgot parry.

I was thinking armor and was trying to figure out how armor is different than paying attention.