August 2016 Feedback
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:36 pm
Final Haven 2016 Event #3 has come and gone.
Some hours have passed, so it's time for a little feedback.
Big thanks to the GMs and staff for putting on the event.
Turn-out was low, but I know I had a good time, so I hope everyone else did too.
THE GOOD
• GREAT player to staff ratio. I never had to really wait to talk to staff, and lines were short.
• The RP that I had with NPCs and PCs was very good.
• The NPCs and research I was expecting all came in with appropriate RP and expectations.
• No PC antagonists--no PC actively trying to screw other PCs.
• The grills at the cabins were very useful.
• Weather on Friday couldn't have been better. Saturday afternoon weather was clear too. So was Sunday for packing.
• Waking up to thunderstorms.
• The evolution of Quen is fairly interesting these days. We'll see if he survives long enough to reach his final form (Super Saiyan Quen?)
THE MEH
• I didn't mind the lack of game-on meeting. We were all veterans and I don't think there was any real "updates" to the scenario that the players needed to be informed about. I didn't hear one way or the other from anyone else, so I guess I was more curious what other folks thought about the lack of it.
• The Player Scene in the middle of the field (An'Dar Portal Nexus) that wasn't there IC. Especially with such a low turn-out, there was a scene in front of the Tavern that occasionally had between two and six people who weren't at the front of the tavern... and it lasted for several hours. With un-used cabins, and other areas less-used available, it was a bit frustrating to wander up to the building only to find out that there still wasn't anyone there, even though I saw players.
• GM/Staff communication. Several times this event I was witness to, heard about, and/or participated in scenes that were initiated by one GM, but at some point was handed-off, or we had to go to NPC camp to continue, and the purpose/concept/intention of the scene changed because of a lack of GMs being on the same page, or not having communicated what was supposed to happen. I'm not sure of a "log" system, or a sealed envelope that PCs take with them to the next GM that describes the intentions would help? It's probably a universal issue that happens often at any game, but some of the differences were enough that I felt it needed to at least be brought up in feedback.
• "Game Break" doesn't mean "Game-off", it just means that the staff will not be actively running any scenes. Players who are out of garb and wandering around the field is uncool in my opinion. Now, of course, this event I think I was the only person still in garb and on the field during Game Break. And again I know we had low turn-out and basically the entire game and staff went off-grounds, but I did stay on-site and there wasn't any staff to handle tags either. Not a deal-breaker, but it was a slight annoyance, and I was able to come back later and get it taken care of.
• Still no building tags. I hear "they're coming", but even we have a basic tag with the info on it on the door. Special tags can be worked on later, but as far as I'm aware, "if there's no tag, it doesn't mechanically exist."
• Players need to re-learn group combat tactics.
• Low turn-out sucked, but it was semi-expected and happens on occasion, especially in August.
• Rain. Meh. Again, couldn't be helped. I'll add mosquitoes to that too.
SUGGESTION
• For Coin at check out, we write down how much coin we're turning in, but that sheet does't come back and we have to hope that the database doesn't screw up. Maybe the bottom of that sheet can be cut off and included in the check-in folder? That way we keep the original record, and if there was a discrepancy, we have our original document.
Then again, maybe including the whole sheet would also help we as players also notice when we don't get or remember that we checked out "Wealthy", or had other items we expected to get from check-out too (commodit
THE CONCERNS/CRITIQUE
• Korrigan is a resource that seems heavily over-utilized IMO. He feels like the trope of the GM's old character who's become an NPC and now has the means to fix/fulfill/answer/do what the players can't, partly because the GM wants to show how cool and important the character is in the player's own game (not saying this is the case, just that it feels that way.) It reminds me of The Dubb. I'd say that it was a way to make sense of how the battles would be fought with such low turnout, but I think it's been going on for a much longer time than this event. The characters would obviously be silly not to use a resource like this, but is that truly what the players want--an NPC (especially an ex-PC, or GM-favored NPC) who just steps in and has the answers/items/means to assist in every detail. We had this issue with Balthos and a few other NPCs in the past where the players began to rely on said NPC and made the PCs feel they couldn't get by without that NPCs help for even the most simple things eventually. GMs, I think, need to take steps back from their NPCs and make sure that they aren't making the PCs less relevant by offering them NPCs to fix situations the GMs have come up with. If you want the PCs to win, let the PCs be the heroes, bring in allies that don't overshadow the PCs, and occasionally call in "the big guns" (Korrigan, a dragon, extra-planar entities, Zuul), but immediate access anytime/anywhere will become a crutch/handicap that the players will rely on instead of creating their own solutions. And if the NPCs become the focus of the protagonist story, then I think the game has lost its focus--but don't blame the players/characters for taking advantage of what is offered, the GMs have to learn restraint to keep the scope of the game in check. Again, just my personal observation and thoughts.
Which leads me to my second point:
• The game setting has been headed to a major style-shift for some time with the additions of the magic-tech, and it feels that it's at the tipping point--does it return to the Tolkien-esque fantasy game where wizards and dragons have the phenomenal power/items, or does it become a magic-tech (magical analogs for modern or sci-fi devices) game where the every-man can use contraptions to communicate across continents and wield/control items crafted and built by mere men that were otherwise unthinkable just a decade ago.
In the past there was an active push-back by some players against the non-traditional fantasy concepts (Asian-themes, or steam-punk-future-tech.) It may be worth addressing the players what setting they want to participate in to help figure out the future of the game setting, or risk alienating the players with a setting they don't enjoy. In Character it obviously makes sense to use any/all items that give the advantage for survival/to win. But as players, game masters, and storytellers, is this the setting we want to participate in?
The answer may very well be "Yes. We want this fantastical magitech world" or it may be "No, we want the more traditional Western-European-Tolkien-esque fantasy setting.) But getting some feedback from active, recently inactive, or perspective players who decided not to play, may be helpful if the GMs are concerned.
Some hours have passed, so it's time for a little feedback.
Big thanks to the GMs and staff for putting on the event.
Turn-out was low, but I know I had a good time, so I hope everyone else did too.
THE GOOD
• GREAT player to staff ratio. I never had to really wait to talk to staff, and lines were short.
• The RP that I had with NPCs and PCs was very good.
• The NPCs and research I was expecting all came in with appropriate RP and expectations.
• No PC antagonists--no PC actively trying to screw other PCs.
• The grills at the cabins were very useful.
• Weather on Friday couldn't have been better. Saturday afternoon weather was clear too. So was Sunday for packing.
• Waking up to thunderstorms.
• The evolution of Quen is fairly interesting these days. We'll see if he survives long enough to reach his final form (Super Saiyan Quen?)
THE MEH
• I didn't mind the lack of game-on meeting. We were all veterans and I don't think there was any real "updates" to the scenario that the players needed to be informed about. I didn't hear one way or the other from anyone else, so I guess I was more curious what other folks thought about the lack of it.
• The Player Scene in the middle of the field (An'Dar Portal Nexus) that wasn't there IC. Especially with such a low turn-out, there was a scene in front of the Tavern that occasionally had between two and six people who weren't at the front of the tavern... and it lasted for several hours. With un-used cabins, and other areas less-used available, it was a bit frustrating to wander up to the building only to find out that there still wasn't anyone there, even though I saw players.
• GM/Staff communication. Several times this event I was witness to, heard about, and/or participated in scenes that were initiated by one GM, but at some point was handed-off, or we had to go to NPC camp to continue, and the purpose/concept/intention of the scene changed because of a lack of GMs being on the same page, or not having communicated what was supposed to happen. I'm not sure of a "log" system, or a sealed envelope that PCs take with them to the next GM that describes the intentions would help? It's probably a universal issue that happens often at any game, but some of the differences were enough that I felt it needed to at least be brought up in feedback.
• "Game Break" doesn't mean "Game-off", it just means that the staff will not be actively running any scenes. Players who are out of garb and wandering around the field is uncool in my opinion. Now, of course, this event I think I was the only person still in garb and on the field during Game Break. And again I know we had low turn-out and basically the entire game and staff went off-grounds, but I did stay on-site and there wasn't any staff to handle tags either. Not a deal-breaker, but it was a slight annoyance, and I was able to come back later and get it taken care of.
• Still no building tags. I hear "they're coming", but even we have a basic tag with the info on it on the door. Special tags can be worked on later, but as far as I'm aware, "if there's no tag, it doesn't mechanically exist."
• Players need to re-learn group combat tactics.
• Low turn-out sucked, but it was semi-expected and happens on occasion, especially in August.
• Rain. Meh. Again, couldn't be helped. I'll add mosquitoes to that too.
SUGGESTION
• For Coin at check out, we write down how much coin we're turning in, but that sheet does't come back and we have to hope that the database doesn't screw up. Maybe the bottom of that sheet can be cut off and included in the check-in folder? That way we keep the original record, and if there was a discrepancy, we have our original document.
Then again, maybe including the whole sheet would also help we as players also notice when we don't get or remember that we checked out "Wealthy", or had other items we expected to get from check-out too (commodit
THE CONCERNS/CRITIQUE
• Korrigan is a resource that seems heavily over-utilized IMO. He feels like the trope of the GM's old character who's become an NPC and now has the means to fix/fulfill/answer/do what the players can't, partly because the GM wants to show how cool and important the character is in the player's own game (not saying this is the case, just that it feels that way.) It reminds me of The Dubb. I'd say that it was a way to make sense of how the battles would be fought with such low turnout, but I think it's been going on for a much longer time than this event. The characters would obviously be silly not to use a resource like this, but is that truly what the players want--an NPC (especially an ex-PC, or GM-favored NPC) who just steps in and has the answers/items/means to assist in every detail. We had this issue with Balthos and a few other NPCs in the past where the players began to rely on said NPC and made the PCs feel they couldn't get by without that NPCs help for even the most simple things eventually. GMs, I think, need to take steps back from their NPCs and make sure that they aren't making the PCs less relevant by offering them NPCs to fix situations the GMs have come up with. If you want the PCs to win, let the PCs be the heroes, bring in allies that don't overshadow the PCs, and occasionally call in "the big guns" (Korrigan, a dragon, extra-planar entities, Zuul), but immediate access anytime/anywhere will become a crutch/handicap that the players will rely on instead of creating their own solutions. And if the NPCs become the focus of the protagonist story, then I think the game has lost its focus--but don't blame the players/characters for taking advantage of what is offered, the GMs have to learn restraint to keep the scope of the game in check. Again, just my personal observation and thoughts.
Which leads me to my second point:
• The game setting has been headed to a major style-shift for some time with the additions of the magic-tech, and it feels that it's at the tipping point--does it return to the Tolkien-esque fantasy game where wizards and dragons have the phenomenal power/items, or does it become a magic-tech (magical analogs for modern or sci-fi devices) game where the every-man can use contraptions to communicate across continents and wield/control items crafted and built by mere men that were otherwise unthinkable just a decade ago.
In the past there was an active push-back by some players against the non-traditional fantasy concepts (Asian-themes, or steam-punk-future-tech.) It may be worth addressing the players what setting they want to participate in to help figure out the future of the game setting, or risk alienating the players with a setting they don't enjoy. In Character it obviously makes sense to use any/all items that give the advantage for survival/to win. But as players, game masters, and storytellers, is this the setting we want to participate in?
The answer may very well be "Yes. We want this fantastical magitech world" or it may be "No, we want the more traditional Western-European-Tolkien-esque fantasy setting.) But getting some feedback from active, recently inactive, or perspective players who decided not to play, may be helpful if the GMs are concerned.
Then all the NPCs showed up - but as something else completely. Well crap. I think for this fight we had a decent strategy, and maybe it paid off since it wasn't as difficult as we had anticipated - nor was it anywhere near as difficult as the previous fight from a past event. This was also another case of, "We'll be right back with your loot" but you're not right back with the loot. I was falling asleep before the fight (before the knights came in) and I was falling asleep again while waiting. After waiting for a while, I decided to go to bed. I had been woken up to be given da loots... grr..