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While I have mixed opinions on the rules that were proposed in the packet, I see many overall positive changes.

My concern is that the GMs are trying to change too much to fast. The FH rules have many components (paths, disciplines, boons, perks, crafted and magical items) that have taken several revisions to get to the rule set we started the year with.

Trying to get the new ones usable by April may be a task bigger than perceived, and I would suggest revealing the rest of your intended changes for review and feedback before running events under them and giving yourselves more time to tweak them. I think the June event is the soonest, if not waiting until next year and just having the player base work out the kinks like they have been with the rules that were recently posted. There have been a ton of good questions, and other factors brought to light that had not been previously considered (such as the read and write starting point refund issue).

To address your concern, the second paragraph of the rules set shows our backup plan.

FH system 2015 wrote:
Backup Plan
We realize that there is a lot of work ahead of us and there’s always the possibility that real life will interfere with our plans. While we are currently on track for an April release, we recognize that the possibility exists that everything will not be as we want it in time for the beginning of the system. We will not rush out a system that we do not feel is play ready. Therefore, if it is not ready for whatever reason, we may introduce the change over time.

I hope this shows that we understand our own limitations, but, in all honesty we believe the rules will be finished and presented to the players by April.

With just under 6 weeks until the next event I am curious if there happens to be an ETA on the release of the changes to these other components?

I am not sure about other players, but with the large changes, I would like about 2 weeks before the event to ponder any re write I may do. That leaves roughly 4 for the staff to get the beta of the new rules posted, hence my posting. That's a lot to do in 4 weeks and still tend to real life stuff like families and work.

Our goal is to post by April 1. We're trying to get things done while we have momentum on our side. If our best efforts fall short, then, as stated, we wii adjust our timetable. We will not implement rules we are not happy with or that are not in a playable state.

GM-Mike wrote:Our goal is to post by April 1

is that a joke

No...but it has occurred to me that if we release the rules on that day and they are poorly received then we have an out

I figured this was the thread to post overall concerns and whatnot with the suggested new rules.

Essence - I really like the idea of having this and I'm really excited on testing this and seeing how it will all work out.

Concern - Adding essence doesn't seem to fit with the ideals in which FH was created (at least from what I understand.. I wasn't there when the FH concept was created, so I think Mike is the only one around now days from that time so I guess he can correct me and put me in my place if need be). Final Haven, was created to be simple - simple numbers, simple calls, etc., so rather than having calls fire magic, or dark magic, or Oggly Woogly Magic, FH is set in the time of Phantara of the One Magic.

I'm not sure if the idea of everything being one (or everything being made of essence) was something created by the game designers, or if it came from players. Empaths "Gather Essence" - which in a way is kinda like putting the soul, or life force back in the body. Life (and life points) are essentially essence. Magic is also essence (some of us players have joked about when empaths use channel, they're throwing essence.. and possibly the souls of the dead )

So, that being said, the introduction of this "essence" feels like our One Magic is beginning to pull itself apart... So rather than using life points (essence) to activate certain skills, we are now going to use essence (other essence) to activate skills.

I mentioned my concerns to Travis...

He looked at me like I was crazy and said I was getting too hung up on the name (which I do sometimes) and asked it if would be better if they were just called, "spell points." I thought about it a moment and said, "probably."


Although my concerns were mostly eased before I posted, I still wanted to share my thoughts and feelings on the subject (otherwise, how will you guys ever know?!) Again, I'm excited to try out the new proposals, and I want to thank you for allowing me to air my concerns.

When we were reworking the system, we originally called them Mana Points and then a few other names were suggested after that, as Mana Points is used in a lot of other games. We finally landed on Essence Points, partially in recognition that everything is one, that the same thing that can fuel your life can also be used to fuel great magic. Think of life points as the essence within and the Essence Points as the additional power you are capable of accessing/manipulating. This additional power, as determined by your role playing choices, may also come from within or maybe you are able, with concentration, to access the free essence or the essence within others or within plants, etc.

My concern here is what is called a "swap out skill."

From the 2014 rulebook, page 16 -

"In addition, at character creation, a player may swap out any one of their Basic Path skills for the first Basic skill listed in any other path."

In the new rules proposal, you have a good deal of skills labeled as "Swap-Out Skill." Please consider giving the skills formally from Heroes and Villains some other label, since you've created 2 different sets of skills that can be "swapped out" that have 2 separate sets of rules to them.

I understand the difference, but this may become confusing.

GM-Mike wrote:We finally landed on Essence Points, partially in recognition that everything is one, that the same thing that can fuel your life can also be used to fuel great magic. Think of life points as the essence within and the Essence Points as the additional power you are capable of accessing/manipulating. This additional power, as determined by your role playing choices, may also come from within or maybe you are able, with concentration, to access the free essence or the essence within others or within plants, etc.

That does make me feel a tad better. I could see Final Haven (not soon, but perhaps somewhere down the road), use an essence pool for character creation. Everyone starts with X as an essence pool and players can assign how much of that essence will go into their life points and how much goes to their magic points.

I'm still a bit resistant to the magic/mana/power/spell points being called essence points. But, this is a pretty minor issue.

Mike, do you see alot of changed happening to disciplines? So far I never heard anything about that angle, and was wondering. I know the upkeep change will be necessitating changing all the disciplines that modify personal income by a percentage, or give bonuses to spending within the economic system if prices therein will be changing (lower, I assume) to reflect the lack of personal income.

Are you also going to have the Perks and path specialities replaced in time that were made redundant? I already know I have to replace at least one of each, and would like to know if I am relegated to what is left, or if there are additions to replace things like Improved Basic Healing, which was turned into a basic skill.

Discipline, perks, specialty changes are happening (mostly to a lesser extent) and are all close to ready to release, I would say. You will not be relegated to what is left. Things will change with the other changes in mind.