Ark: thread of tough love and abuse #3
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:18 am
what do you prefer? the love or the abuse?
I pondered the idea of doing this one so I figured I should get around to it.
this is going to be my review of the Final Haven disciplines, and before I start I have a disclaimer then a basic outline of how it will go.
**DISCLAIMER**
everything in my post is my opinion based on the facts of the FH system, combined with the knowledge and interworking's of the system and general combat setting. I do this because I enjoy it, I enjoy games of all types, mechanics, and systems. Im also an avid student of war, I love strategy and tactics off all types and have studied Sun Tzu, Rommel, Cornwallis, Alexander, etc. simply because I enjoy it.
You can disagree and ignore with anything I post, that is your right. but if I happen to help one person look at something different, try something new, or give them an idea. then I will consider this a success.
*outline*
I will be primarily scoring the disciplines on a 1-10 scale. 5 being balanced and good, 1 being total rubbish, and 10 being overpoweringly broken. I expect a lot of 5's the GM's went through a lot of work to try and make everything balanced so it should come as no surprise.
I also plan to give a recommended / not recommended path choice. once again these are based only on my opinions given what facts I know of the FH system.
btw (by the way) im skipping political based disciplines, but if you want *my* opinion here it is; don't.
shall we begin?
Arcanist: score - 6 (versatility)
-wizard in a bottle, and if only a few spells or potions are required a better alternative freeing up a whole path. even a little dip of 20-40 points here for some notable basic spells or potions is worth it.
recommended path - Any except wizard.
not recommended path - wizard, no need to take this just narrow your spells and potions down, make up your mind.
Archer: score - 5 (good but awkward and cumbersome weapon)
-everything you need to be an archer in one discipline, no path required. nothing but damage though so if your looking to do something else your going to have to rely on your path for that.
recommended path - sage and healer, gives full non path reliant damage to paths that have none.
not recommended path - rogue, empath, warrior, wizard. these paths have other damage steroids or roles they should be performing.
Assassin: score - 4 (only saved by its master skill being exceptional in PVP)
-its 3 skills leading to touch of death are fairly useless in your standard combat, and its master requires skills not available in its discipline to work effectively, the only reason its not 3 is because vorpal knockout is sick.
recommended path - rogue or sage. . .nobody suspects the sage.
not recommended path - everything else, it was made for knockout.
Barbarian: score - 4 (underwhelming)
-regen and combat reflexes make it a good dip for any savage. fear is in the class of skills that are useful when they are not needed (if its able to be feared its weak enough to just kill, and things you would want to fear cannot be feared) and crush comes with large drawbacks as well as being just not necessary in the FH combat setting.
recommended path - warrior.
not recommended path - everything else, its a melee combat path.
Beast hunter: score 3 (bad combination of skills all grouped together in one place)
-wilderness survival is useful but meh, resist fear can be acquired with ease elsewhere, fear is explained in barbarian, and pole arms are considered unwieldy and situational at best.
recommended path - don't bother with this discipline unless it really tickles your fancy.
not recommended path - everything, I really don't recommend this one.
Brawler: score 4 (decent savage melee with a bad master skill)
-if you want fists and soak here you go, but its made worse by its master skill, if you want to use knockout assassin is clearly the better choice, but for fists and soak in savage here you have it.
recommended path - warrior for melee, empath to channel through fists.
not recommended paths - everything else, fist combat is just not important or advised for the others.
Captain: score ? (the political exception)
-the only reason I mention this is because its the only privileged discipline that has Florentine, and thus is useful as a dip if your a knight to duel wield two blades for "2".
recommended path - warrior for whirling blender of death action.
not recommend path - everything else, they just don't whirl or blender as well.
Chieftain: score ? (the political exception #2)
-only if you really want resist mind effects.
recommended path - any, does not swing a particular way.
not recommend path - none, resisting mind effects is never bad.
Craftsman: score 8 (its the only thing that does what it does, can anyone do it comparable or better? that's right!)
-very passive gameplay though, if you want to be helpful and required without much actual effort here you go.
recommended path - sage, healer, and wizard.
not recommended paths - everything else, the other paths are more combat and action oriented, and thus would benefit from a discipline focused more on that.
Defender: score 5 (for the warrior paranoid of loosing their toys)
-very defensive and focused discipline, you will not be doing much, but at least you can keep all your stuff whilst your doing it.
recommended path - warrior and rogue, because they are rendered helpless without weapons.
not recommended path - anything that does not require weapons or is fine with running from a fight.
Dervish: score 5 (barely)
-just enough versatility and usefulness to be useful, but really only for people that don't quite know what they want to do, and there are better disciplines for that.
recommended path - anything you think might require a few extra unique effects.
not recommended path - wizard, you have plenty of unique effects.
Druid: score 7 (remember when I said there are better disciplines for that. . .)
-awesome versatility, unique skills useful both in and out of combat, and a sweet name to boot.
recommended path - all of them really, but especially sage, it just synergizes to well.
not recommended path - empath and rogue, these two are already plenty busy with things to do and require disciplines that shore up their weak spots.
Eater of the dead: score 2 (what it has the possibility to do other disciplines do much better)
-clunky to use, and not even versatility can save this one. interesting idea, but just does not work.
recommended path - none, pick another discipline unless you have your heart set.
not recommended path - all of them, move along.
Grenadier: score 4 (archer does it better, and empath does it much better)
-if you want to throw packets for damage why not be an empath? if you cannot be an empath how is this better then archer? just think it over. a 20 point investment to have infinite rocks that cannot be taken away is usually worth it if you cannot get anything better though.
recommended path - healer and sage, so they might contribute in combat without being in combat.
not recommended path - empath, rogue, and warrior. better damage steroids or up close melee so no need for ranged.
Guardian: score 3 (defender does it better, and healers are very competent and don't need your help)
-only real use is preventing a red chip death, and I cannot recall the last time we had a red chip death. plus it does not even prevent YOU from red chip dyeing. . .so yeah.
recommended path - healer, and only then if you can use it as a healer whilst healing.
not recommended path - all of them, play something you will enjoy.
Interrogator: score 3 (the discipline you really want to work well but just falls short. . .or falls of a cliff)
-torture takes tooooo long for what it does and implant suggestion is something that sounds badass, and in the real world would be fantastic but never works right and can be meta'd to death, sad face.
recommended path - healer, to help cut down on the long torture time if you really want to torture people.
not recommended path - everything else, I know I would love it if it worked well to.
Knight: score 5 (your classic fighter)
-does what it sets out to do and does it well, who doesn't love a knight.
recommended bath - warrior. . .I mean really what did you expect?
not recommended path - everything else, they have better things to do.
Man-at-Arms: score 6 (for your paranoid fighters)
-lots of defense and escapes in one discipline, and shield can help block channels that you cannot resists. very survivable, might save some people, but not very aw inspiring.
recommended path - warrior and sage, the best fighter and the second best fighter, both also have innate shield use so there you go.
not recommended path - everything else, they have roles better performed then defending with a shield.
Monk: score 5 (good balance of defense and offensive that earns this class its name)
-hard to describe good balance when its found, if you like what you see, you should not be disappointed.
recommended paths - warrior for melee and survivability, and empath for fists to channel through as well as meditate to help get back that life you blow through with skill use.
not recommended paths - everything else unless you really want meditate.
Pikeman: score 5 (would be a 6 if not for the unwieldy and situational weapon)
-home to THE ONLY NON WEAPON FOCUS WEAPON RESTRICTED SKILL in the game, impale. good discipline ruined by skills being directly tied to a weapon.
recommended path - warrior and sage, its a combat discipline
non recommended path - everything else, other combat paths already have damage steroids.
Scout: score 7 (for the scared and afraid. . .anything)
-haven, the best defensive skill in the game bar none, once in it you are safe for ever. all other skills are just plain useful and nice to have, nothing not to like.
recommended path - any of them, anyone can find use out of this disciplines skills.
not recommended - none of them, as I said its a universal discipline, that alone bumped up its score.
Swashbuckler: score 5 (almost a 4, would be a 6 but vorpal has drawbacks and it just does not quite cut it)
-the original sole duel wielding class, but the mighty have fallen and unless you really want disarm or vorpal you are almost always better off in another discipline.
recommended path - warrior, if you really want to duel wield vorpal
not recommended path - everything else, unless you really have some awesome concept you want to play out.
Tribal protector: score 6 (a lot of useful skills in 1 discipline)
-a very versatile discipline that almost always has an edge or way to combat any monster it might face.
recommended path - almost any of them really.
not recommended path - none of them, like scout its fairly useful to anyone and that makes it awesome.
Undead slayer: score 4 (an borderline useless skill, and only better then tribal protector if you really want the weapon focus)
-repel is a situational fear, and I explained why fear is weak in barbarian, so yeah that explains that. really you need to be a tribal protector unless you REALLY want a weapon focus.
recommended path - warrior - if you want a weapon focus and no discipline granted defense you best be a warrior.
not recommended path - everything else, and even warrior almost, just be a tribal protector.
Witch hunter: score 6 (like tribal protector and sole owner of disenchant)
-shares many traits seen in tribal protector, so this should come as no surprise. if you care less about undead than be a witch hunter)
recommended path - like tribal protector and scout this discipline is made awesome because anyone can make effective use of it.
not recommended path - only empath, and only if you consider yourself a witch, as that might be weird. . .or logical, whatev.
I MADE IT, to the end, and all in one sitting. this is all from the core rulebook and I will get to any in the expansion in a bit. this is all opinion and if you disagree, hate, or heartily oppose what I think that's fine. if you would like to comment or ask why I feel this way about something please do and I will try and explain myself better.
-Ark q_q (cry face)
I pondered the idea of doing this one so I figured I should get around to it.
this is going to be my review of the Final Haven disciplines, and before I start I have a disclaimer then a basic outline of how it will go.
**DISCLAIMER**
everything in my post is my opinion based on the facts of the FH system, combined with the knowledge and interworking's of the system and general combat setting. I do this because I enjoy it, I enjoy games of all types, mechanics, and systems. Im also an avid student of war, I love strategy and tactics off all types and have studied Sun Tzu, Rommel, Cornwallis, Alexander, etc. simply because I enjoy it.
You can disagree and ignore with anything I post, that is your right. but if I happen to help one person look at something different, try something new, or give them an idea. then I will consider this a success.
*outline*
I will be primarily scoring the disciplines on a 1-10 scale. 5 being balanced and good, 1 being total rubbish, and 10 being overpoweringly broken. I expect a lot of 5's the GM's went through a lot of work to try and make everything balanced so it should come as no surprise.
I also plan to give a recommended / not recommended path choice. once again these are based only on my opinions given what facts I know of the FH system.
btw (by the way) im skipping political based disciplines, but if you want *my* opinion here it is; don't.
shall we begin?
Arcanist: score - 6 (versatility)
-wizard in a bottle, and if only a few spells or potions are required a better alternative freeing up a whole path. even a little dip of 20-40 points here for some notable basic spells or potions is worth it.
recommended path - Any except wizard.
not recommended path - wizard, no need to take this just narrow your spells and potions down, make up your mind.
Archer: score - 5 (good but awkward and cumbersome weapon)
-everything you need to be an archer in one discipline, no path required. nothing but damage though so if your looking to do something else your going to have to rely on your path for that.
recommended path - sage and healer, gives full non path reliant damage to paths that have none.
not recommended path - rogue, empath, warrior, wizard. these paths have other damage steroids or roles they should be performing.
Assassin: score - 4 (only saved by its master skill being exceptional in PVP)
-its 3 skills leading to touch of death are fairly useless in your standard combat, and its master requires skills not available in its discipline to work effectively, the only reason its not 3 is because vorpal knockout is sick.
recommended path - rogue or sage. . .nobody suspects the sage.
not recommended path - everything else, it was made for knockout.
Barbarian: score - 4 (underwhelming)
-regen and combat reflexes make it a good dip for any savage. fear is in the class of skills that are useful when they are not needed (if its able to be feared its weak enough to just kill, and things you would want to fear cannot be feared) and crush comes with large drawbacks as well as being just not necessary in the FH combat setting.
recommended path - warrior.
not recommended path - everything else, its a melee combat path.
Beast hunter: score 3 (bad combination of skills all grouped together in one place)
-wilderness survival is useful but meh, resist fear can be acquired with ease elsewhere, fear is explained in barbarian, and pole arms are considered unwieldy and situational at best.
recommended path - don't bother with this discipline unless it really tickles your fancy.
not recommended path - everything, I really don't recommend this one.
Brawler: score 4 (decent savage melee with a bad master skill)
-if you want fists and soak here you go, but its made worse by its master skill, if you want to use knockout assassin is clearly the better choice, but for fists and soak in savage here you have it.
recommended path - warrior for melee, empath to channel through fists.
not recommended paths - everything else, fist combat is just not important or advised for the others.
Captain: score ? (the political exception)
-the only reason I mention this is because its the only privileged discipline that has Florentine, and thus is useful as a dip if your a knight to duel wield two blades for "2".
recommended path - warrior for whirling blender of death action.
not recommend path - everything else, they just don't whirl or blender as well.
Chieftain: score ? (the political exception #2)
-only if you really want resist mind effects.
recommended path - any, does not swing a particular way.
not recommend path - none, resisting mind effects is never bad.
Craftsman: score 8 (its the only thing that does what it does, can anyone do it comparable or better? that's right!)
-very passive gameplay though, if you want to be helpful and required without much actual effort here you go.
recommended path - sage, healer, and wizard.
not recommended paths - everything else, the other paths are more combat and action oriented, and thus would benefit from a discipline focused more on that.
Defender: score 5 (for the warrior paranoid of loosing their toys)
-very defensive and focused discipline, you will not be doing much, but at least you can keep all your stuff whilst your doing it.
recommended path - warrior and rogue, because they are rendered helpless without weapons.
not recommended path - anything that does not require weapons or is fine with running from a fight.
Dervish: score 5 (barely)
-just enough versatility and usefulness to be useful, but really only for people that don't quite know what they want to do, and there are better disciplines for that.
recommended path - anything you think might require a few extra unique effects.
not recommended path - wizard, you have plenty of unique effects.
Druid: score 7 (remember when I said there are better disciplines for that. . .)
-awesome versatility, unique skills useful both in and out of combat, and a sweet name to boot.
recommended path - all of them really, but especially sage, it just synergizes to well.
not recommended path - empath and rogue, these two are already plenty busy with things to do and require disciplines that shore up their weak spots.
Eater of the dead: score 2 (what it has the possibility to do other disciplines do much better)
-clunky to use, and not even versatility can save this one. interesting idea, but just does not work.
recommended path - none, pick another discipline unless you have your heart set.
not recommended path - all of them, move along.
Grenadier: score 4 (archer does it better, and empath does it much better)
-if you want to throw packets for damage why not be an empath? if you cannot be an empath how is this better then archer? just think it over. a 20 point investment to have infinite rocks that cannot be taken away is usually worth it if you cannot get anything better though.
recommended path - healer and sage, so they might contribute in combat without being in combat.
not recommended path - empath, rogue, and warrior. better damage steroids or up close melee so no need for ranged.
Guardian: score 3 (defender does it better, and healers are very competent and don't need your help)
-only real use is preventing a red chip death, and I cannot recall the last time we had a red chip death. plus it does not even prevent YOU from red chip dyeing. . .so yeah.
recommended path - healer, and only then if you can use it as a healer whilst healing.
not recommended path - all of them, play something you will enjoy.
Interrogator: score 3 (the discipline you really want to work well but just falls short. . .or falls of a cliff)
-torture takes tooooo long for what it does and implant suggestion is something that sounds badass, and in the real world would be fantastic but never works right and can be meta'd to death, sad face.
recommended path - healer, to help cut down on the long torture time if you really want to torture people.
not recommended path - everything else, I know I would love it if it worked well to.
Knight: score 5 (your classic fighter)
-does what it sets out to do and does it well, who doesn't love a knight.
recommended bath - warrior. . .I mean really what did you expect?
not recommended path - everything else, they have better things to do.
Man-at-Arms: score 6 (for your paranoid fighters)
-lots of defense and escapes in one discipline, and shield can help block channels that you cannot resists. very survivable, might save some people, but not very aw inspiring.
recommended path - warrior and sage, the best fighter and the second best fighter, both also have innate shield use so there you go.
not recommended path - everything else, they have roles better performed then defending with a shield.
Monk: score 5 (good balance of defense and offensive that earns this class its name)
-hard to describe good balance when its found, if you like what you see, you should not be disappointed.
recommended paths - warrior for melee and survivability, and empath for fists to channel through as well as meditate to help get back that life you blow through with skill use.
not recommended paths - everything else unless you really want meditate.
Pikeman: score 5 (would be a 6 if not for the unwieldy and situational weapon)
-home to THE ONLY NON WEAPON FOCUS WEAPON RESTRICTED SKILL in the game, impale. good discipline ruined by skills being directly tied to a weapon.
recommended path - warrior and sage, its a combat discipline
non recommended path - everything else, other combat paths already have damage steroids.
Scout: score 7 (for the scared and afraid. . .anything)
-haven, the best defensive skill in the game bar none, once in it you are safe for ever. all other skills are just plain useful and nice to have, nothing not to like.
recommended path - any of them, anyone can find use out of this disciplines skills.
not recommended - none of them, as I said its a universal discipline, that alone bumped up its score.
Swashbuckler: score 5 (almost a 4, would be a 6 but vorpal has drawbacks and it just does not quite cut it)
-the original sole duel wielding class, but the mighty have fallen and unless you really want disarm or vorpal you are almost always better off in another discipline.
recommended path - warrior, if you really want to duel wield vorpal
not recommended path - everything else, unless you really have some awesome concept you want to play out.
Tribal protector: score 6 (a lot of useful skills in 1 discipline)
-a very versatile discipline that almost always has an edge or way to combat any monster it might face.
recommended path - almost any of them really.
not recommended path - none of them, like scout its fairly useful to anyone and that makes it awesome.
Undead slayer: score 4 (an borderline useless skill, and only better then tribal protector if you really want the weapon focus)
-repel is a situational fear, and I explained why fear is weak in barbarian, so yeah that explains that. really you need to be a tribal protector unless you REALLY want a weapon focus.
recommended path - warrior - if you want a weapon focus and no discipline granted defense you best be a warrior.
not recommended path - everything else, and even warrior almost, just be a tribal protector.
Witch hunter: score 6 (like tribal protector and sole owner of disenchant)
-shares many traits seen in tribal protector, so this should come as no surprise. if you care less about undead than be a witch hunter)
recommended path - like tribal protector and scout this discipline is made awesome because anyone can make effective use of it.
not recommended path - only empath, and only if you consider yourself a witch, as that might be weird. . .or logical, whatev.
I MADE IT, to the end, and all in one sitting. this is all from the core rulebook and I will get to any in the expansion in a bit. this is all opinion and if you disagree, hate, or heartily oppose what I think that's fine. if you would like to comment or ask why I feel this way about something please do and I will try and explain myself better.
-Ark q_q (cry face)
