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1) Can you upgrade a class 2 container to a wheel barrel AFTER the class 2 is finished? And can you RP it NOT being an actual wheelbarrel?

Also does it still have an upkeep or was that removed?

Since the common theme is RPing the skills and powers and items differently, does a wheel barrel need to be an ACTUAL wheel barrel, or can the player just RP having access to a "minion" or horse/mule to transport the class 2 container?


2) In drunken brawl, it states that a dwarf needs ambidex AND iron fist to upgrade the fist phys rep to small size (I am assuming from tiny).

Ambidex states if its bought twice you get to use small fists (seems just having drunken brawl and ambidex should be enough) and iron fists adds the ability to block with fists (which drunken brawl already provides).

Is the ambidex and iron fist part of drunken brawl a mistake? iron fist seems unneeded because it doesn't affect fist size at all.


Page 79 says fists are tiny ... but there is no tiny catagory on the weapon size chart just small, short, long, hand & 1/2, and 2 handed.

Drunken Brawl says the PC can swing and block with a single fist, and then says the phys reps (plural) become small size with ambidex and iron fist

Ambidex says the PC can swing two fists, if bought twice the fists are small size (implying they start at the non existant tiny size)

Iron fist says the PC can now block with the ambidex fists, and if bought twice there is a knockout component added

SOOOO....
What are the dimentions for a tiny weapon?

Does drunken brawl give a PC one or two fists, and are they able to block with the fist(s) the skill provides like basic ambidex fists (if yes it makes requiring iron fists pointless, unless having all three is like having ambidex and iron fists twice)?

If Drunken Brawl provides only one fist, does ambidex increase that to two AND increase thier size to small? If so then iron fist is again pointless since drunken brawl already allows blocking. The only advantage to buying iron fists would be getting the knockout component.

DM call on this?

3) If a PC is hit with a shatter, is wearing no armor but fighting with a fist that can block weapons and a shield...what happens?
does shatter automaticly target a weapon FIRST, then armor: or can the shatter user target the item they are targeting in the shatter call like " shatter armor, shatter left handed weapon, shatter shield, shatter corsett strings..." (Last one is a personal favorite.)

What are the dimentions for a tiny weapon?

Seems like I have been hearing this from everyone lately. Main Rulebook, page 92. As far as I know they have been in the book since I started in 2007.

Tiny weapons:
Min length-12
Max length-18
1/2 inch core; 5/8 foam thickness


As an interesting aside with tiny weapons- I have been seeing rogues all over the place dealing "knockout" with their main normal weapons, but according to the rules I can find any call using that skill (even vorpal knockout) is limited to tiny weapons or fists. In roleplaying scenes (ie, non-combat) you can use the pommel of a weapon if it will be safe to do so.

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1) Can you upgrade a class 2 container to a wheel barrel AFTER the class 2 is finished? And can you RP it NOT being an actual wheelbarrel?
Also does it still have an upkeep or was that removed?

If I was a GM I would say you can, by paying the difference in creation cost. You are putting wheels and a pair of handles on a crate that already exists. I dunno about upkeep.


Since the common theme is RPing the skills and powers and items differently, does a wheel barrel need to be an ACTUAL wheel barrel, or can the player just RP having access to a "minion" or horse/mule to transport the class 2 container?

Well......technically we are supposed to be phys-repping everything, even resource tags, according to the rulebook.


2) In drunken brawl, it states that a dwarf needs ambidex AND iron fist to upgrade the fist phys rep to small size (I am assuming from tiny).

Ambidex states if its bought twice you get to use small fists (seems just having drunken brawl and ambidex should be enough) and iron fists adds the ability to block with fists (which drunken brawl already provides).

Is the ambidex and iron fist part of drunken brawl a mistake? iron fist seems unneeded because it doesn't affect fist size at all.

Listed under Brawler, double Ambidex gives you the ability to wield a small size weapon alongside a tiny size fist.



3) If a PC is hit with a shatter, is wearing no armor but fighting with a fist that can block weapons and a shield...what happens?
does shatter automaticly target a weapon FIRST, then armor: or can the shatter user target the item they are targeting in the shatter call like " shatter armor, shatter left handed weapon, shatter shield, shatter corsett strings..." (Last one is a personal favorite.)

When I played Rhul, who only fought with his fists, I brought that up- the GMS told me that shatter does nothing in that case. Just like a fist is immune to disarm, they are immune to shatter. The shatter does not carry through to hit anything on the player like armor or items.

I dare say that is the balance of the overpowered fact that if a call of shatter hits your shin, your entire suit of armor is destroyed, rather than just your leg armor. And now even light armor is affected by shatter, too.

Seems like I have been hearing this from everyone lately. Main Rulebook, page 92. As far as I know they have been in the book since I started in 2007.

my error, its the small weapon size the rules speak of whose dimentions do not exist on the list.

Listed under Brawler, double Ambidex gives you the ability to wield a small size weapon alongside a tiny size fist.

doesnt answer the question, since the question isnt about taking ambidex twice, but is in fact about how the other skills work with drunken brawling. Also, I am looking for a GM to make these rulings since I have been asking since before this season began, and player supposition isnt a rules supposition.

When I played Rhul, who only fought with his fists, I brought that up- the GMS told me that shatter does nothing in that case. Just like a fist is immune to disarm, they are immune to shatter. The shatter does not carry through to hit anything on the player like armor or items.

Then the GMs did not clarify sufficiently when they answered, it does carry through if your fists cannot block weapons like the level one brawler path skill.

Ok - CJ has pointed out the dimensions for Tiny sized weapons.

As for Drunken Brawling here is the breakdown -

Just Drunken Brawling - Can attack and block with (1) Fist

Drunken Brawling + Ambidexterity - Can attack with both Fists but can only block with one.

Drunken Brawling + Ambidex + Iron Fists - Can attack and block with both fists, and both Fist Physreps may now be of Small size rather than Tiny.

Hope that helps -

As for the Container to Wheelbarrow question - I see no reason you could not modify a current container to a Wheelbarrow by paying the remaining cost. As for Physrepping it I am sure if you come up with an inventive way the GM's would be fine with whatever as long as it meets the requirements for a Class 2 container or thereabouts.

Also there is no upkeep on any type of container including the Wheelbarrow.


Lastly for SHatter, if you have no armor, and are using just Fist Physreps you would be pretty much Immune to Shatter - if you were using a Shield they would have to hit the actual Shield to Shatter it. Same goes for a Weapon, the Shatter has to hit the Weapon Physrep itself to Shatter it. Anywhere on the body destroys your Armor.


Location based Shatter was disregarded to reduce the number of situations that may arise of players arguing where they hit someone with SHatter, since those players with Real armor rarely feel a packet hit.

Ok - CJ has pointed out the dimensions for Tiny sized weapons.

Yup, like I re posted, its small sized weapons the rules speak of that have no listed dimentions for...

Lastly for SHatter, if you have no armor, and are using just Fist Physreps you would be pretty much Immune to Shatter - if you were using a Shield they would have to hit the actual Shield to Shatter it. Same goes for a Weapon, the Shatter has to hit the Weapon Physrep itself to Shatter it. Anywhere on the body destroys your Armor.

Just to clarify, the rule book says a hit to fists, if not the type that can block weapons, destroys armor(with no need toactually hit the armor), hence why I was wondering how a hit to a fist woul dinteract with shield only. My guess is it follow the same lines as non blockabe fist and armor.

The rest seem to have answered the rest of he questions........for NOW! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....




sorry my inner meglomaniac got carried away.

For a Shield to be Shattered it must be hit directly, the same as a Weapon, so if you are using a Fist that cannot block and a Shield if the Shatter hits your fist it does not destroy your Shield - Is that what you are asking Brian?

I see your point on the Small size category - strangely enough Taki and I were talking about this yesterday and he and I were just saying there needs to be a category between Tiny and Short, perhaps Small.

Maybe look at putting Small at 19" to 26" and Short at 27" to 36".

Just an idea right now.

Im asking if, as the rule book states, the shatter hits a fist that is NOT able to block weapons (like ambidexterity provides) that if your wearing armor, the armor IS affected.
Im curious if your not wearing armor in that case would the shatter affect the shield.

Here is a proposed sizing chart and construction guidelines, blended from a few LARPS I was a safety marshal for before.
________ MAX ____ MIN ____ MAX/MIN ______ headed/sword
Size..........Length......Length........Grip...................Core Type
tiny............. 14.......... 10......... 4/4.................... 1/2" CPVC
small........... 18.......... 14......... 6/4.................... 1/2" CPVC
Short........... 32......... 18......... 8/6.................... 1/2" PVC~1/2" CPVC
Long............ 46......... 32......... 10/8................... 3/4" CPVC~1/2" PVC
Bastard....... 48......... 46.......... 12/10................. 3/4" CPVC
2 Handed..... 60......... 48......... 18/12.................. 3/4" PVC
Staff............ 72......... 56......... 24/18.................. 3/4" PVC
1 H Spear.... 60......... 48......... 30/24.................. 3/4" CPVC
Polearm....... 72......... 66......... 36/24.................. 1" PVC

Also, headed weapons (maces, hammers, axes, pole arms) required open cell padding on the striking end, of at least 1 " per size catagory (up to 6" Min) from tip to handle. In other words a tiny hammer has to have an open cell head covering the first inch and a long hammer has to have the head cover the first 4" from tip.
Staves have non padded and centered grips to improve control since you dont strike with that area.
2 handed spears are treated as polearms.
ALL spears, 2 handed weapons, and polearms must have 3" open cell thrust tips beyond the end of the foam covered core. Bastard sizes weapons must have an open cell thrust tip of 2.5", all others the tip is 2".

Lets say you are wearing armor and you are hit in the hand with shatter. Would your armor be affected?

The answer to that question answers your question about using a fist weapon without ambidex or equivalent skill. Also, in case anyone is wondering, the same answer applies if you are holding an item that is not a LARP approved blocking item (weapon) and it is hit with shatter. For example, you are holding a plastic cup, or broomstick, or a leg of Lamb.

If your fist phys rep is hit and you are not wearing armor or your armor is already shattered then the call has no effect. The reason is because the shatter description states that if you are hit on some thing that is not a weapon or a shield than it instead destroys your armor. It does not state anything beyond that.

GM_Chris wrote:Lets say you are wearing armor and you are hit in the hand with shatter. Would your armor be affected?

no, the hand is not a legal target area, along with feet and face. if you mean your phys rep, then yes it would be effected, unless its a fist or claw, as they are natural weapons and therefore immune to shatter.

GM_Chris wrote:The answer to that question answers your question about using a fist weapon without ambidex or equivalent skill. Also, in case anyone is wondering, the same answer applies if you are holding an item that is not a LARP approved blocking item (weapon) and it is hit with shatter. For example, you are holding a plastic cup, or broomstick, or a leg of Lamb.

oh dont be complicated, how about just doing a little bit of that rule clarification you are all talking about so much and just not make ambidex required to resist shatter, that is the silly part.

Ark you seem snippy in your post and I do not understand why. To clarify the reason I did not directly answer the question is because sometimes it is better not to.

You are correct, hand and feet are not legal target areas unless you are using that rule to not take hits in which case it would become a legal target area. Does that make sense? In case anyone is confused, the reason for making hands illegal targets in because we do not want people trying to disarm a person by wacking their hand. The reason feet are illegal is because we do not want people bending down in an unsafe manner to ankle byte.

Using this rule in an attempt to avoid hits would be illegal.

Hope that helps if people are still confused after Keil's post and mine please feel free to ask.

I would like to use a leg of lamb from now on.


If you are hit with a shatter to a fist phys rep and you do not have a skill that allows you to block, your armor blown up. If you have a shield, it is indeed still fine. The shield, like the weapon needs to be struck directly.

weapons smaller than 18 inches were removed due to safety concerns.

Show me where it says I can't use a weapon smaller than 18 inches. The rulebook currently states that a tiny weapon is anywhere from 12 - 18 inches.

GM_Chris wrote:Ark you seem snippy in your post and I do not understand why.

well there is not a sarcastica font, nor any way to convay tone so i will just use more and faces, it was snippy but not in an angry sort of way

GM_Chris wrote: You are correct, hand and feet are not legal target areas unless you are using that rule to not take hits in which case it would become a legal target area. Does that make sense?

so there not a legal target area unless you get hit in that area then it is a legal area? no i understand what you are saying, if you get hit in the hand with a stray weapon it does not count, if you are useing your hand to block a weapon it counts. understandable

GM_Chris wrote: In case anyone is confused, the reason for making hands illegal targets in because we do not want people trying to disarm a person by wacking their hand. The reason feet are illegal is because we do not want people bending down in an unsafe manner to ankle byte.

Using this rule in an attempt to avoid hits would be illegal.

Hope that helps if people are still confused after Keil's post and mine please feel free to ask.

still why not just re word ambidex rather then try to find a reason why some people's hands are effected and not others?