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Rseach Czar wrote:The burden of research is going to fall on you the player. We will no longer accept "I want a spell to kill people" and then have the burden of figuring out the mechanics be on the GMS's. In addition, this means that if your write-up is not even close to being balanced (as in it is too powerful) it will be rejected as a failed attempt instead of the usual silence as we attempt to fix everything to make it in line with current spells, potion, crafted items. This means that if your spell, potion, crafted item is actually more costly than its benefit we will not balance the spell, potion, crafted item in your favor.

As balancing now falls upon the players, will you be posting the balancing formula for general public use?

That is an excellent question. Let me discuss with other GM's of all chapters. Personally, at the moment, I really dont see an issue with that.

ya mean your not going to say that is something they should research IN GAME?!

I vote no, 90% of the possible effects are out there as well as most of the negatives. It shouldn't be hard to look at a couple of spells or potions and figure out an approximate balance. If the list is released there will be dumbass spells and potions submitted all over the place that are far more powerful than they should be because they have a bunch of silly negatives. And you might as well just remove that whole last part because no one will submit anything that isn't balanced already.

*prod*

i belive the online term is "bump"

I am directly research so it is more RP oriented so I don't want to release the formula as that will detract from what I want to accomplish.

I understand the fear my post might have caused as the players know that some players know the formula and others do not so it appears that I have created an unfair situation. I assure you I have not created such a situation. Those without the formula are actually at an advantage as I will expect less from the have nots and more from the those in the know.

For those who do not know me I tend to speak in black and white terms but I am not a rule lawyer. I am interested in the RP reasons WHY you are researching a specific item and I have an expectation that a person will request something that generally makes sence.

For example:

I want a first level spell that in 5 minutes will kill everyone withint he sound of my voice......Who thinks I will approve this request?

Hypothetical Example 2:
When I was on a plot I had a theory that words hold power and thus want to experiment with such words. I want to cause pain to everyone within the sound of my voice so I want to setup an experiment. I believe that the word Xanturanip might be the one I am looking for, and since I know that you cannot get something for nothing I will be using magic components to fuel the spell. I believe to cause a small amount of pain (1 LP) to everyone who hears the word would not be trivial but maybe not 4th level so I am thinkng 3. ...Who thinks this has a better chance of approval?

I am also looking at making research more "real" done are the days of free resarch, and done are the days of no consequence for failure. In this example I would ask who he/she was testing the spell out on. I would ask how many attempts are you willing to make for success. (There will be a cost to research)

I would then, based on the difficulty roll some dice here at some with eah attempt giving you an increased chance fo success. You would then pay the money at game on to find out if you were successful or not.

I hope this clears things up.

Uhm pay money? Why is all of a sudden arcane, craftsman and alchemy costing more money than it already does? Why is it all of a sudden going to possibly be dangerous? I understand the rp thing but that's total crap. No one else has any danger. A healer doesn't have to have 'patients' die while they figure out how to resurrect someone, or how to effectively heal them in negatives. An empath doesn't blow themselves up when they learn how to do a 30 magic. Like I said, I understand what you're going for but there is a point in a game where "realism" is glossed over for simplicity.

Its not total crap.

They are not researching a new mechanic to the system.

I also dissagree with the idea that what I am doing is too complicated.

What you as the player is going to get out of this deal is event by event updates on your research instead of asking for something and then month after month you hear nothing followed by we will get to it.

I also think we created a culture where if a person researches something you expect you will get something eventually so what has been happening is we get a research request like:

"I want a 3rd level spell that does damage" and then we the GM's have spent hours trying to come up with a new spell.

Now you can research something, but the burden will be on you meaning no "I want a 3rd level spell", but I will intigrate your research into a plot (everyone likes that). Unfortunatly it will cost you a little cash most likely (helps the economy)

And not every research idea means you are going to hurt someone or yourself. What it means is you have to test this stuff out which means if you are comming up with a spell that hurts someone then I need to know how it is being tested. If you are working on an immunity potion then you would have to drink it and then get hit. The purpse is so we as GM's can grow the RP of the world not somehow make you come to the event missing an arm.

It's not a new mechanic it's the implementation of old mechanics, and the drawbacks are that you have to plan ahead, you don't get to use your skill with a 5, 10 or 30 count AND you have limited uses if they cost you anything to cast\make and the time to cast\make it. You can integrate research into the game world without jacking up cost in the process.

So tell people that submit that kind of research after 2 events they aren't quite sure that they'll ever come up with something unless they 'focus' their energies on certain areas. If they don't get that then after 2 more events they get back that they haven't gotten any farther in their research because it's too broad. Basically tell them they need to give you a better description of how they are going about their research or they can never learn and get frustrated and talk to other people and find out that they actually get their research because they do it right.

Erik I am going to do those types of things but I dissagree all new spells add a mechanic which is why there is a vetting process and why alot of things get recalled because though it balances on paper it messes things up in the game.

Most people agree that research is messed up. I had people quit the game near the beginning because our game allowed research.

Implimenting a novel cost to the system, which makes sense (no where does it state its free), will help curtail frivilous research while giving you something else to spend money on.

If this works out I might allow research into things like hidden disciplines. A person can research a new hidden discipline, but there would be a cost associated. Who knows. I am just brainstorming.

I say check it out, if you dont like what I do after you see it done then we can discuss it farther and if we decide it completely sucks I will refund any costs you put into it. Fair fair?

What is the in-game cost of research?

I think adding RP and cost to research are a great idea. It really opens up a lot of options you just couldn't do otherwise.

The ingame cost to research would depend on wht you are researching.

It might not cost anything.

How are you deciding what information costs more than others? It's definately an interesting concept, but in order for it to work absolutely every aspect needs to be balanced.

I'm just a little hesitant to jump behind any new system without knowing whether or not it is actually done. This rule change could possible cripple existing characters if it is not complete prior to it's initiation.