Ideas and Questiosn from the Event

[Eilonwy]

I refuse to accept that those actions were "thoughtless".

I would say those actions were heroic. Good grief, thoughtless is the last way to describe all of them. Glad to know there are characters that are willing to do them.

Personally I would have hated the fact that the 3 ladies in the tent would perma die simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Thanks from me as well Chris. But you were also kind enough to run back and reassure us someone would help us in the end.

At the moment I was more concerned about the possibility of stumbling into the fire than if Val was going to live or die.

The thought crossed my mind (and Eilonwy's) of walking away with some bad burns but I was too busy trying to (ineffectively) protect the ladies behind me. It did add a new element of danger, however...

There has to be some senseless tragedy or else heroism has less of an impact.

Another good point. Maybe if companions are desperate to bring someone back who is willing, heroic quests can be the means.

[WayneO42]

Matt- I think your analogy is a bit melodramatic.

Lets take a look at the metaphysics of a resurrection and they might help us come up with some mechanics or reasons behind the mechanics. I will brake it down by each persons role in the resurrection process as I see it:

The Healer
The healer repairs the body (The vessel) to be able to once again hold an essence. They are making the physical repairs so the body doesn't leak out the essence once again. When a person draws a chip from the bag, they are randomly determining how good of a job the HEALER did. The chip draw has nothing to do with them, it is purely FOR the healer as a skill check.

The Alchemist
Sometimes, even after the healer has done his job, the body is still too weak to hold an essence (Even if the healer did an excellent job). The alchemist can use a potion (Fortify the dead) to strengthen the body further.

The Empath
Even after the body is once again suitable to hold an essence, it is still an empty vessel. The Empath has the ability to reach into the very magic stream itself and pull out the free essence of the target. The essence after all is just a very distinct pattern of collected magic. The empath then channels that essence back into the body. The empath does not have a distinct chance of failure because, to them, this is a relatively simple task to perform once they know how to do it and have the aptitude for it. It is basically the same as channeling magic to throw as damage. The only danger is if they are interrupted. They could accidentally sever or harm the essence of the target (I think interruption of the empath during res should result in perma death which will add a lot of drama).

The Arcane
Sometimes, if the target has been dead for awhile, the essence is no longer "Hanging around" the body. It has started to move on or disperse into the magic stream. The Arcane can call the essence back into the area so the empath can do their job. The arcane basically creates a magical magnet that attracts the essence of the target. In order to make this magical magnet they need the body of the target or cast another more difficult rite. (If any other point of failure should be added, I think it is at this step)

[GM_Chris]

Wayne is right on!

In one of my later posts I made mention of time after death. As wayne has shown..time..makes the body less suitable and IMO more difficult to hold essence.

The amount of time dead SHOULD increase difficulty.

I can see an arcane/empath combo rite where you start the rite to keep the body healthy and in stasis long enough to reduce the odds of failure.

Basically what Chriten did with Brian's chaarcter. The risk is...if interrupted he perma dead.

Thoughts?

[Nelkie]

I agree with wayne and Doug.

The first step is to have the healer make sure the body is whole and can be acpect the essece of the being back into it. Aka, draw a chip from the bag, and if it is red, they can't be raised. If it is white, contiune on with in the current rules.

Say it takes a minute to prepare the body for resurection, the chip draw, and than the empath takes over.

As long as the empath makes it to the person before the 15 minutes is up, the body has the chance to be resurected as long as they stay there until the healer prepares the body. At any time the empath gets disrupted, the resuection fails and the body can not be brought back.

Simple and very little rule changes. Every time you die you have 1 in 10 chance of permently dying.

[DrakelenasElderich]

Not sure if this was answered already so here I go. What about using another body for the gathered soul?

You died and a Healer tried to get your body ready for a res. You draw the red chip. Your body can no longer hold a soul. Perma Death? or... Now what about using a different body with all the proper steps. Everything goes right and the soul is put into the new body.

I think there needs to be a negetive to doing this. If at all possible now. When it happened to me all I lost was the racial boon. Bad, but not that bad.

[GM_Chris]

Miscommunication you were suppose to loose the LP's asociated with race as well.


You draw a red chip you are perma dead unless there is some plot

[Kalphoenix]

I'm not a GM, nor a long-time player, but if we're looking at mass-death and destruction, I think we should wait on a res restructuring.

I hate to see people die permanantly for bad luck in a game, unless it's for a dramatic, plot-driven purpose.

Just my opinion...I know a lot of people feel differently, but when someone dies, or gets close to dying, I find it pretty scary myself.

[GM-Mike]

as always, no big changes will happen until the off season

[Ravinal]

Just speaking about what's already been said on perma-death. I understand the need to install fear into your players about death. When players do ignorant things because they are unafraid of death, then it makes it difficult to create that IC fear. I also have to say that that fear isn't impossible. Having to sit or lay there dead for a long while is enough punishment, I feel. Especially to us who are very attached to our characters.

Yet to create a larger perma-death margin will make afew things happen to the game. It has been discussed that it will make players fear death, yet that isn't known for sure that it will have that effect. We have one extreme in the game, it is quite easy to be ressurected. Going to another extreme of having a larger margin of perma-death may unbalance how much death is in the game if the rules aren't watch carefully.

It's possible that the effects can be that the brave characters may die out while the more cauious characters will continue to hide in the Inn. That to me equals FH death. Or this could install into players the feeling that characters are indeed not as important *if the margin becomes too high* and players could make large amounts of back up characters to compensate. In that making players feel less fear and more unattached to their characters. That to me would mean a worse character death than perma-death.

[Kalphoenix]

I think Ravinal hit it on the head how I feel about widespread perma-death.

I don't think anyone is really treating death lightly...but correct me if I'm wrong.

[Onimaster]

I think we don't want a high death rate, just high-er. And, it would be nice if the death risk for monster vs. PC death were lower than PC vs. PC deaths.

Meaning that characters should be mortal, but still have a good (85-90%) of coming back mostly unscathed, and yet not make death so toothless that if a PC wants to plot to bump off another character that they feel it's a given that their efforts were useless.

[Ravinal]

This seems to go back to our conversation of how FH players may possibly be harboring hurt feelings and want retribution. I don't feel that this is as excessive as you imagine. Of course I don't have eyes everywhere and don't hear everything......no one does. So I could be wrong. Yet, seeing how people talk to each other after an event, I find it difficult to believe.

Also you still seem to think that one or two more perma-deaths a game are a solution toward player fear. I am still not so sure of that. I know if I perma died every game. I would either start to lose interest in the game and leave; or I would make up so many uninteresting characters that it wouldn't matter anymore. I don't think my luck will be that bad, but I am trying to illustrate a point. I remember speaking to Hanna about the 'dead girl society' and apparently the plot involving them created enough fear to make them bond together on that alone. So, there may be other solutions. Although I know these rules may not be put in until next season, I would just like my thoughts on this made clear. And again, I could be wrong.

[Ravinal]

I remember having this discussion with you before about how you felt that no character should die in any game where people feel a strong attachment to there characters. Seems you've changed your mind slightly.

Looking further into your point, I see that it may be less creating fear and more character rotation. Where as we have many of the same characters from before and the only characters that have perma-left are those who have done it of their own free will. I ask that if the games perma-death be slightly increased by more strict rules, that the rules be scrutinized entirely. Im not saying that the GMs won't do that. But I am saying that rules have been put in place hastily before.

[Eilonwy]

I remember having this discussion with you before about how you felt that no character should die in any game where people feel a strong attachment to there characters.

I remember this one too, since it was told to me as an incentive to try FH a few years ago.

I agree with a lot said in the last two posts. Honestly, I'm worried that the ones who would get burned (by not being careful about these changes) would be the good roleplayers. There are the ones who fear death and show it in very different ways (as well as keeping it bottled up), ones who play more hardened characters, or ones who are more zen about it.

The ones who will not be affected will probably be the very ones who are causing this need to instill more fear in the first place. These people will probably just do as others have already said. Create more shallow character ideas for backup, or just complain about mechanics, but they will move on. Fear, probably not. Shrug, more likely.

I could also be very wrong. Just throwing some concerns out there.

[GM_Chris]

We dont want to see even 1 character die in an event, but we also dnt wnat an event where 20 characters die just toall bebrought back.

Drama means there should be some sort of ending. Some sort of up's and downs. This means characters need to die or at least Loose. On the flip side in a heroic setting characters need to win against all possible odds. This is Very hard to balance. I think we only need avery small change to make it perfect. To be honest I like Doug's suggestion, but all our data is based on people using neg 15 not neg 20 so things are a bit skewed.

That all said a character can ALWAYS return, but you loose all levels. Some might think this is harsh, but honestly the time to regain levels it isnt an issue.

Lets say Ravinal's head got chopped off by the wraiths and thrown into town. LeRoy wants to keep plaing Ravinal. Well heck we can think of a reason to keep him comming back. Maybe he comes to an event as anNPC just to make some space between characters and ten he can almost create a mini plot as to why he is bck atless than his former glory. Be an interesting plot. It would besome great RP'ing and still instill fear.

I want to see honor and glory! I want to see courage. There is no real courage without fear. I want those players that really really dont want to loose their character suck it up, leave the inn and fight for something greater than themselves. Then if they die the other characters sing Ballads intheir name. Out of game these players may be sad at the loss of characters but relish the coolness of the role playing and realize it is stll just a game.

I want that feeling at every event and I dont ever want it to be gone