Turtling Rule

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:01 am

I would like to see our

"the shield can be no wider than your shoulders or longer than your knees to yor shoulders" at least put in the book. It is missing.

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:31 am

Shield Safety

At no point may a shield be used for striking in combat. The shield may not be swung and any contact with the body of another player is to be avoided. The rim of the shield must have sufficient enough padding that the shield rim cannot be felt through it. The face of a shield may not have any protrusions. Any shield bosses used must be rounded and contain no rough edges.

An oversized shield can also cause safety issues on the field. A shield may never be so large that it covers the user's complete body. A legal target area must be presented when the shield is held in the ready position in a combat stance. The head and feet are not legal target areas. As a good guideline, the shield can be no taller than the owner’s shoulders when they are kneeling, and no wider than their shoulders with their arms at their sides. A shield that is of legal size for one user may not be for another. At any time a player is using an oversized shield they will be warned and told to drop the shield immediately.

PG. 85

Fionna · Post by **Fionna** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:32 am

I don't usually get involved in rules discussion, mostly because I am of the opinion of just tell me what the rules are and I will follow them.

However, I have been caught in the face several times, one resulting in a game stop (shield to the eye, in which I needed to find a contact lens in the back of my head). Shields for the most part are huge and not padded well enough. I'd like to see us go to Dagohir style shields for safety's sake.

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:49 am

Thanks, I missed that page!

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:51 am

No one should ever get hit in the head with shields. If this is happening the following must be happening!
1. Folks are leading with there heads!
2. Folks are not keeping the 2 feet apart from each other!
3. Folks are bending over trying to hit feet
4. Folks are throwing shields over there heads and trutling

All which are unsafe fighting rules

I believe one of the reason's people are getting hit in the face with shields is folks are closing in to close so they can wrap around the shield and people with shield are throwing up there shields over there heads which leads to head bashing. All not cool

Here is a simple rule I think will reduce the problem with shields.
"At all times your head and shin's must be showing when wielding a shield" Aka, you can not cowar behind a shield. Period.

I have have been fighting with a shield for 13+ years and the only time people have been hurt with my shield is when they lead with there hands not weapons.

Shields are powerful, but there are so many ways to take down a person with a legal size shield. All these where used on me during the mass battle to great effect.
1. crush
2. disarm
3. Emapth booms
4. fear
5. taunt
6. root
7. 2 magic lash
8. magic sleep
9. traps
10. surround and beat
11. Do an X step to end up on there off side to get a couple free hits on the shield person. They have a blind side.

I know Vince and I where a pain to fight with our shields, but we have been fighting together with shields for years now. I would consider us being some of the harder folks to fight with shields which can lead to folks getting very fustrated becasue it was hard to hit us. But in the end you did get past our defense's and kill us!

Now, I think there needs to be a FAQ on what machine gunning is for FH. The 45 degree arm thing will not work becasue it is impossible to tell if a person is swing 45 degree's or not, escpilay at night. It is way to vauge and folks where call machine gunning when folks where not doing it. So does any body have any ideas how to clairifiy it?

Zeira · Post by **Zeira** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:19 am

Just for clarification you can't diasarm a shield as far as I know and the 2 foot rule is gone.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:33 am

No, you disarm there weapon and beat the snot of them while they try to get there weapon back.

And what happened to the 2 foot rule? I just checked and it is still in the rule book. Did it change and I did not get the memo??

cole45 · Post by **cole45** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:50 am

the two foot rule was revised mid year.

Malachi · Post by **Malachi** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:57 am

The charging rule, while technically still the one listed in the book, has been subjected to a different field call every event this year. It's understandable that no one really knows exactly what it means. My stance on it is fight as safely as I can, and if I get called for charging I back away for a moment.

As for shields, my problem with the current size definitions is that, on me, it leaves roughly one square foot of 'legal target area' on my legs, and less than that on my arms (but only if I'm throwing a shot). In this particular game, I personally think that is too big for two reasons (granted, these are if I'm fighting said shieldman face to face):

1. I have to bend over (at least slightly) to hit their legs, or I'm charging. THis presents my head as the primary target.

2. If I throw a shot at their striking arm/either shoulder, the chance of a reflexive block going up and taking my (originally safe) weapon swing and driving it into their head/neck is exceptionally high, leading to at least one person feeling bad.

Just my two cents.

Fionna · Post by **Fionna** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:12 am

I got hit in the head in a cave from someone in front of me. I was not charging or even fighting. I was healing someone and the person in front of me backed into me because of fighting in front of them. They were much larger than me and raised their shield right into my face. Every time I have been hit in the face with a shield it was from someone in front of me. And ALMOST every time, there definitely was not enough padding on the shield. This is why I advocate for the Dagohir style shields for safety.

Not everyone gets hit because they are not fighting safely, sometimes the fault lies with the other party.

Everyone who carries a shield must learn to wield it safely, right now that is not the case.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:48 am

If you are using a shield and have a short weapon, please do not bend down and go for the legs. It is not safe. That is the trade off. Short weapons limited striking area but can move faster. Long weapons greater target areas, but slower.

I checked the rule updated and the book and I can see where charging was changed. Can some one clue me in what the supposed new charging rules are??

Yes, I agree aiming at folks shoulders and swinging arm can lead to head shots becasue folks reflexive blocking those to their head. But that means people need some training on how to block and what is classified as a safe swing. This is live action and you will get hit in the face once in a while. It's combat.

The big thing I'm getting from people's posts is shields are to big and the size needs to be reduced. I know temple will total agree to that! (He hates my large shield

)

Fionna, you bring up a good point.
But this brings up one of my pet pev's If you are healing a person, please move out of the combat zone and start your healing there. If you are on the ground and people are fighting around you, you will be stepped on and or be hit accidently by folks in combat. It is not safe. I can not count the number of people I backed into who where healing while fighting. I know I stepped on a couple of those folks and probably hit them with my shield acouple of times.
I know this can't be done always, but setting up a healing circle around a tree or a large structure keep people safe. Safety first, RPing second.

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:50 am

I was taking a lot of ankle and foot shots while fighting in the building, so I decided to fight the same way – and immediately got struck in the head. Had to chastise myself – that’s why you don’t go for the feet – it forces you to lead with your head. I stopped aiming for the feet at that point, and started ignoring all hits to the ankle and below.

Fionna · Post by **Fionna** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:52 am

Every time I have been hit has been in a cave where moving out of combat was not possible. It is rarely possible to get out of the way while healing people, usually we are in the center with other trying to protect us.

Post by **GM-Mike** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:58 am

The two foot rule was determined to be too subjective. The field ruling has been that you should not do anything that would either cause you to contact someone or do anything that would make it impossible for another to contact you. Charging is thus physical contact with another player. If you are so close that you are going to be hitting someone with a part of your body, back off. Note that bear hugging under this rule is illegal as well. Even if you are not touching another person, they cannot do anything without touching you.

The two foot rule is a nice rule of thumb but is not enforceable and is entirely subjective in the heat of combat.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:59 am

True and I would suggest folks standing up to heal in those situtations to be safe. It is not the best RPing, but as Mike said, safety first.

That is one of the reason's you never see me laying on the ground when I'm down. I don't want to be stepped on!!!

I know Carps has a rule that feet hits don't count and it works well and helps people from bending over to hit feet.