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I don't really have a preference in regards to the items stacking - it's fine if they do and fine if they don't - but if we're going to use weapon size / reach as a balancing factor for an effect I think that's something we should think through a bit; especially if we're considering opening up the weapon type specification. I know there are "formulas" out there that have been used to balance items against each other, but I don't know if weapon size / reach has ever been calculated as a variable.

Because of the interactions of LARP combat a slew of arguments can be made about the fighting effectiveness of daggers and polearms in comparison with swords and the like, so if we're going to assign a mechanical value to length (which we are doing if we say that making the weapon requirement shorter balances it) we should come up with a workable metric so that our use of length is consistent.

That is why I disagree with balancing this particular item on phys rep size. Each phys rep has advantages and disadvantages in combat. They are generally equal.

I just wondered whether it's be fair to open up the skill the allow someone to make a curved hatchet, or a balanced mace.............

Zeira wrote:That is why I disagree with balancing this particular item on phys rep size. Each phys rep has advantages and disadvantages in combat. They are generally equal.

not in the case of a charge up skill. were length is a distinct advantage. (less of a chance to get disrupted)

it has been said in the past my multiple GM's that pole arms and the like are unweildy weapons. when i was trying to get the vorpal from pikeman to be unrestricted to them (its the only skill besides weapon focus that requires a specific weapon)

likewise the tiny weapons like fists and daggers are at a disadvantage because most people weild max length short weapons (i can tell you for a fact any short weapon I see made are max length)

in this system with its rules on charging, the distance between people in combat, etc. favors weapons in the mid 3 feet + range. i say this because most people have 3 foot weapons, having an extra few inches over that is a distinct advantage (when matt and i fight hits can be a hit by barely an inch)

I know the vorpal part of pikeman is in my mind supposed to be the balance of the fact that polearms have many disadvantages that unfortunately don't come into play much at LARP.

Like for instance the fact that only a very small portion of a pike forms it's main head, while the rest is just haft. Just that head does the main damage.

But in most LARP combats you can't simply get "inside" the length where the head is to hit the bearer where he's at his weakest, because players will simply use the entire length as a striking surface. You can't dart inside and lock up their weapon by grabbing it, either, which is a great real world tactic but illegal at LARP.

The only disadvantage then is when indoors or in caves due to swinging room.

Marcus wrote:I know the vorpal part of pikeman is in my mind supposed to be the balance of the fact that polearms have many disadvantages that unfortunately don't come into play much at LARP.

The only disadvantage then is when indoors or in caves due to swinging room.

a vorpal skill does exsist that is the exact same in every way save for it is swords instead of pikes. so any arguement made that you cant do it with a sword is moot. i said just make them both the same, any weapon (as long as it follows the "vorpal" rules) should be able to do the charge up.

agree on the last part, and even then most of that can be mitigated if you try. one of the best tactics is to use the barbarian crush with a pike, they cant close to deal vorpal damage to you and you can strike anything you want

I like using a quarterstaff for that very purpose.

5 vorpal isn't broken with sword or claw which means we should just make it any.

Zeira
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There is no need for a 'Small' catagory of weapons. Just extend short to cover the gap. There are no skills that require 'Small' weapons.

Brawler—Common, Savage
There are times when combat gets up close and personal. The brawler excels during these times and is just as deadly with his fists as the common warrior is with a sword.
Level 1: Ambidexterity—Passive skill
With Ambidexterity a Brawler may fight with a fist phys-rep in each hand. As well, the brawler may call “1” damage while wielding fists. Characters who invest in two disciplines with the Ambidexterity skill may dual wield a fist and a small sized weapon.

Curved Blade
Crafted to cause maximum damage, this is a vicious weapon. The Curved Blade can only be a Small or Tiny weapon size, but grants 2 additional damage to a Critical Strike performed with this weapon.

I disagree with restricting Balanced and Curved properties to a specific weapon size. How does that create balance?

The restrictions are in there are are there as a balance for the extra damage by making the weapons challenging to use due to size.

How does it facilitate fun for the people who play the game?

why due blanced rules restrict fun? Isnt the fun SUPPOSED to be from playing the character and experincing thier lives and adventures? Dont see how that is even related to weapon size restrictions in the rules.

Critical Strike is in no way limited by a weapon type or length either.

Currently true, doesnt mean it SHOULD be that way. Also "Crafted to maximize the dexterity of the wielder, this is an assassin's weapon." is not how blunt weapons are generally describe, and AT BEST applies to light clubs and very light flails (like nunchuku)

When you use a curved balanced weapon with a skill mastery potion you gain the ability to swing 10 in 2 seconds.

I would imagine that kind of bonus is seen anytime several top notch ites and potions are used together. Also, what does that bonus COST, and how often can a player realisticly expect to use that combo?

That is why I disagree with balancing this particular item on phys rep size. Each phys rep has advantages and disadvantages in combat. They are generally equal.

while its true every weapon, real or LARP, has advantages and drawbacks so they are balanced against each other; that does not mean those overall balances are the same when coupled with an outside influence like a skill or item effect.
For example: If your using channel with a weapon, would you rather have a bow or a dagger? (yes I know you have to use a melle curently). What about about dual wield with basterd length weapons? The weapon size does alter the skills effect.




Marcus
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Plus I think that curved and balanced being "small" as opposed to "Short" are supposed to be that way to offset the pretty big benefits they grant.

wiat wait wait...first im agreeing with Ark, and then Christen, now you? Hell next it will be Chris....

Im joining a monastary....




Ark
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ballance by cost has always been silly, i have magic items should be balanced in the effect they provide (IE you get and item that gives you resist magic, it should cost you 5 life to use. . .as well as being expensive)

How is charging 5 times what the skill costs AND a large rescource/coin cost NOT silly?

items unbalance a system (balanced blade, curved blade) that is suposedly balanced. i would not mind if ALL items that granted a damage bonus went away.

Why stop there? Lets make all items go away and get rid of all skills and just have one race and everyone uses a single stick? I mean why have cool things like stuff in game, it just makes the game more fun right?
The items are there because they make sense to have them there, and because they have the added effect of making the game more fun.

Its an unsettling trend, all the requests to make all skills work in all situations for all paths/disciplines/races, because it actually bleeds away the intricacy of the rules and the depth and character that keeps realism in the rules and still allowes a blending of the fantasy our world doesnt have.
Its like chosing to make a famous painting over in black and white only.[/quote]

Wyrmwrath wrote:Why stop there? Lets make all items go away and get rid of all skills and just have one race and everyone uses a single stick? I mean why have cool things like stuff in game, it just makes the game more fun right?
The items are there because they make sense to have them there, and because they have the added effect of making the game more fun.

lol, way to throw the baby out with the bathwater

there are plenty of items that dont increase damage, 2 that do. (the channel crystal and curved blade) there can be items that make the game interesting and improve skills without improving damage.

as for the 10 in 2 seconds. if you can afford the items (people can) and make or buy the potions (people do) this can happen many times during an event. if you can only afford the weapons 6 in 2 seconds is all the time. if you can only afford one weapon and have a sage buff 6 in 3 seconds is all the time.

and finally onto magic item cost, yeah i think they should be silly expensive both to use and upkeep based on what they do.

I promise... as someone who has two balanced/curved blades so that Sunny can do 6 in 2 seconds... it costs me an inhuman amount event. I wanna say... like 5 gold. The ONLY reason I can even remotely afford it is because Sunny is a merc and gets paid well, and I have Advanced Barter so I don't have to worry about upkeep with her.

I WROTE her that way BECAUSE it was broken before. It was a way to show how abusive it could be. Hell, the first event I did it, Jared had like 4 people come to him and ask if I was cheating. *wink*

Now... that doesn't mean that doing 6 in 2 seconds of charge isn't sick. It is... but does the cost balance that out? That's the question.

lol, way to throw the baby out with the bathwater

True, and intentional. I was being extreeme, so that you would react with a "wow your taking it too far!" kinda thing. I wanted you to see things from my shoes whyen your talking about removing all of one type of thing...no matter what it is. There should be a balance. even with items that add damage.

there are plenty of items that dont increase damage, 2 that do. (the channel crystal and curved blade) there can be items that make the game interesting and improve skills without improving damage.

...and the game could be interesting without items and skills or more than 1LP per PC and ....
Like I just said, sure the game could survive, but there is no logical reason it should have to. I dont want the game to survive, I want it to burst depth and detail...even though it doesnt NEED it.

as for the 10 in 2 seconds. if you can afford the items (people can) and make or buy the potions (people do) this can happen many times during an event.

...and then how often the next event once all that rescources have been expended. I am WELl aware that PCs that are smart can stock pile and run wild for one event. Im Shifted Lands my pc was the the go to guy for having what was needed on hand at all times, and came close to crushing the portion of the residence that were on Nates bad side, all from having the right items at the right time. The issue with that is after such a rampage, your out of ammo for AT LEAST an event, likely two at FH unless your connected like Corbyn or Korigan. Overall, it moot an balanced by cost.

if you can only afford the weapons 6 in 2 seconds is all the time. if you can only afford one weapon and have a sage buff 6 in 3 seconds is all the time.

tough, but balanced by the weapon size.

and finally onto magic item cost, yeah i think they should be silly expensive both to use and upkeep based on what they do.

or what? what do they do thats SOOO amazing you feel a king has to become a pauper just to own and use one?