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Seer is probably not getting a combat skill.

so try again.

but I thought the point of seer sleep was for probe mind

It was, but poeple want team work and sleep doesn't feel very seer-like and it feels overpowered because of that.

Plus Probe Mind no longer requires the target to be asleep. So there is no need for Seer to have a Sleep type call.

master warrior weapon focus is redundant, its not very versatile to have 2 skills that give us +1 with only one weapon.

Single Weapon Specialization is there so a Warrior who so chooses to do +1 damage with no shield and nothing in their off hand does not have to take a full discipline in order to do +1 damage with their weapon of choice. It would only be redundant if there were two skills in Master Warrior that you had to take that didn't stack.

As for versatility, Rogues don't have access to Single Weapon Specialization. Nor do Empaths, Wizards, Sages, or the Jack of all Trades. These classes gain access to +1 damage from disciplines because it is the only way for them to get it. Bottom line is that if you want to swing paired weapons or use a shield, Weapon Focus is the way to go. If you just want to waggle one weapon, Single Weapon Specialization is better, because it opens up more disciplines, thereby making the character much more versatile.

We should all use this brainpower that we have assembled here to come up with some new idea's for 4th level Seer...Suggestions? I thought of having an ability that allowed you to speak with the dead, takes 15 minutes spend one permenant LP to be able to summon a dead persons memories, ask one question. The process would increase the chip draw of for resurection by 1. The LP loss lasts for an event. No body required.

I am aware that this can make it more difficult to PVP. That's kind of the point, it requires people to have to do more than just chop up the body. It makes the Amnesia potion more usefull. It adds a new dynamic to the game.

Thoughts?

I've been batting some ideas around in my head. This isn't a bad idea, just something seems off about it to me. Just my two cents, though.

Ok I think, just in case people want to still argue weapon specialization I should give some context.

First off, its my skill so let me tell you how I envisioned it. I wanted weapons to matter. The original idea was a 2-handed specialization, so if you had both hands on a weapon you could swing for plus 1. Really that was the start and end of it.

Then you would have knight--swords, undead--headed, pikeman--polearm, warrior 2-handed

Then there was a ton of discussion with A LOT of good points from other GM’s. We had a crap ton to work on and warrior was one of the last things we did. In the end each GM kind of had their “pet” skills and so some back room politics went on. Like—I will vote for yours if you vote for mine. Why? Well we were fighting over small details, we had a deadline, and that is kind of how this stuff works in FH and in Washington. 

Then right after it passed or maybe a month after it passed we all, as in those GM’s who hated the skill and those who wanted the skill, realized that the form that was released was too much, but we completely stopped talking about it since we were not changing rules mid season.
Then start of the new year I created a stealth post on this subject called DPS on the GM forum. We were not getting anywhere, probably because I was too stealthy, so I made a political move and created the same post under the general rule discussion forum sure the players would see my point on DPS.

No one really posted, we got to the end of when we can make rule changes, had a con call, and knowing something had to be done this is what you get.

If you do not like it, then suggest an alternative skill, but do so knowing the following (these are not negotiable so don’t even try to make us see your point of view:
1) 4's while wearing armor or shield--not happening (Because I will veto it)
2) 4's at all--probably not happening (Most GM's hate 4's especially since a hero point bumps it to 5) There is a chance you might get somewhere if your creative, NOT because you make some argument about 4’s not being too much damage. If you want to see a 4 then you need to wow us, and it probably needs to be with a short duration and some dissad.
3) 3's duel wielding--not happening no one likes this and will be shot down—see above
4) Would like to not add a new damage call unless you are SUPER compelling.

Goals:
I would like to see a differentiation between weapons and styles of fighting to add more mechanical uniqueness and outward style to the game.

Kiel actually has a great idea about a 'Weapon Mastery' skill that gives benefits based on the characters style of combat. I don't remember specifics, but maybe he'll be convinced to repost it (hint hint).

Also, I do like your idea about the '+1 damage with no armor' idea. I see it as an alternative form of a Weapons Master, sort of the "I need no armor, my blade will protect me" kind of thing. Adding an armor restriction would go a long way to balancing the skill (well, the whole path really) out, but if I were to be asked my personal opinion, I would rather it work the way it does now (ie no stacking save Rage/Hero Point) if not completely replaced.

Just my two cents.

weapon spec stacks.
no two weapons
no shield
med - light - no armor, dont really care i would only say medium as that brings it in line with sure-footed, but if its too much drop it.

maybe some sort of battlefield control skill, like a root or slick with damage on it? like a trip? or something, so they dont have to rely on soak or damage to keep an enemy at bay?

My idea for the warrior skill would be as follows...

Fighting Style

This skill allows you to change your fighting style. It takes 5 minutes to change fighting styles.

Offensive - This style allows you to deal "2 Crush" with a headed or blunt weapon or "2 Vorpal" with a bladed weapon or a pole arm. This skill has a 10 second reload time.

Defensive - This style grants 1 additional life point and the ability to resist press. If you already have the press skill you are immune to press while using this style.

Balanced - This is the style I have been struggling to find a good ability for. I would like some feedback on what people think would be good here.

Leo and I have officially done a DPS EXPERIMENT

our research has shown that A person weilding one weapon can not swing as fast as one might think if the a complying with the 90 degree rule,

while using 36in. shortswords, some of the lightest in game might I add, While one of us was swinging 4' the other character using 2's was going at double fairly consistantly.

no one was harmed in this experiment we preformed our attacks on inaminate objects only...

Benifits of two weapons

-you can block one weapon and still attack at the same time

-while swinging 2's you swing more attacks giveing a high statistical chance to hit

Benifits of one weapon

-no length restriction



the middle ground

I believe that we can all agree that someone dueling will whomp someone single wielding simply because someone with 2 swords can block one sword and hit at the same time.

if dueling 2 is not more powerful the single wielding 4's they are equal...


but I still think 4's are useless regardless, as a character that used it, it is fairly useless, using a shield and doing 2's is way more useful to me.

GET RID OF WEAPON FOCUS FOR A MASTER WARRIOR SKILL PLEASE!!!

something like

Hero Block-The Warrior through heroic battle senses can block any frontal melee attack for another player within 5feet; POSSIBLE COSTS: (said warrior instead takes damage.)(Or cost is 1LP)

I think this is more of an advanced skill....

I personally would like to see support defensive fighting skills, I know its something unheard of in this game.

Suggestions for a different advanced warrior switch out skill give us Press instead of Crush Rogues have hamstring "1 Vorpal root" fir 1LP and warriors have 1Crush,

My only comment for the time being is to remind people that the people who run this game have been LARPing and creating rules for 17 years. We have people who play this game who are not even that old. Don't assume that we don't know what balanced is or that we somehow all of a sudden don't know what we are talking about. Simply assume that we are poor at articulating things, especially in writing. Chris did a good job of explaining what we won't consider. It's not because we are bull headed--we simply know what we're talking about.

The reason why the warrior expansion skills seem weaker than the other paths is because the warrior is stronger than the other paths. They are the best defensively, and they are capable of being the best offensively. The key word there is capable. Sure, if a warrior is passive, then they get their ass handed to them. If they're not, then they can clean the floor in a one on one fight. I'd be happy to demonstrate this at one of the events if you'd like. I'll even just use a short sword with no shield against your dual wield if you wish. I mean, I would use a shield but I don't want to make anyone cry

Coming up with skills that will not simply throw off the balance to a silly degree is difficult, and I too welcome suggestions.

speaking in terms of dps and statistics, Reguardless what are the rules of this challenge?

First thing I want to say is trying to swing a 42 inch bastard sword two handed at 2 hit per second is a BITCH! I was trying it out with some friends and it's rediculous hard.

Now on to more constructive thoughts.
I , as one who lost the ability to swing the 4's, would be more than willing to see this occur. I feel it's a bit of a compromise and makes a bit of sense, to me at least.

Warrior weapon spec- Adds +1 to weapon damage call TO A SPECIFIC WEAPON. Stacks with discipline weapon focus.

Rage- A character can only use 1 weapon while using this skill. Stacks with Weapon focus or Spec but, NOT both, UNLESS, the weapon is weilded in both hands. A character loses ALL combat reflexes while this skill is active. A warrior (character) also, cannot use any (non-passive?) skills while this skill is active. Ie: Parry/dodge, resist magic/sleep/poison, etc. It takes 5 (or 10) uninterruptable seconds to activate this skill, during which time the character can take no other actions. It takes a character 5 (or10) interruptable seconds to end this skill.

Like I said, *I* would be willing to run a warrior this way.This allows a warrior to keep their armor but, because they are enraged they disreguard their own safety. Also it keeps most damage calls to a three while giving those truly dedicated to a *pure* fighter the option for a boost in tough times.

What do the you think? Like? Don't like? Needs more work?

i totall get what your saying Arjan, and i must say that is a tiny change that makes a difference.

instead of

W spec - Rage = no W focus stacking

its changed to

W spec - W focus = no Rage stacking.

this makes the whole decision of how you fight based between the 2 warrior skills, you take rage to have a more general use of more damage with multiple/more weapons. or spec to be really good with 1 weapon

. . .i like it.

Hero Block-The Warrior through heroic battle senses can block any frontal melee attack for another player within 5feet; POSSIBLE COSTS: (said warrior instead takes damage.)(Or cost is 1LP)

I think this is more of an advanced skill....



I like this. It's call Guard At Carps.