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A speed loader holds 100 BB's and to my surprise they have level marks telling how many BB's you have left. So filling clips to an estimated amount of ammo is easy!

Ammo will definitely be an integral part of the game. A great deal of simulation – immersion - will be lost if everyone can go Rambo with infinite ammo. Probably will even track different caliber – can’t use a looted 5.56mm clip in your 7.72mm gun. Thinking different colored chips to represent different caliber clips.

How much ammo can someone carry? Entirely up to the player. If he has a tactical vest with 12 ammo pouches, then he can stick a clip or loader in each one of those. More pouches on the belt will allow even more. Leg pockets – more still. Players will police each other for cheese, like a wrist strap holding six loaders when it’d be impossibly awkward to carry even a single clip there.

Probably allow flexibility with virtual clips, though. Carry a speed loader with 90 rounds in one pouch, but leave two other pouches empty to account for the fact that the loader has three clips worth of ammo. The player would be expected to only load approximately 30 rounds each reload. Number of rounds will likely vary to match the real-world weapon equivilant.

We can’t allow both SAWs and assault rifles to fully utilize high-capacity clips, or there’s no advantage to SAWs. In fact, SAWs would be at a disadvantage given their large phys-rep size. From a rules angle, sure, this can be offset by making SAW a cheap skill, and high-cap assault rifle an expensive one. It could be said that an experienced rifleman is as deadly with his weapon as the green heavy-weapons guy is with his monster. Currently, Support Trooper 1 grants SAW, while we could make Assault Trooper 4 grant high-cap clips (or just have an open selection of skills of varying costs and prereqs). Though, game-wise, I’d prefer to see SAWs always having more impressive killing power than assault rifles.

So the second option is to allow SAWs only to take advantage of high-capacity clips. This could become a significant annoyance, however. For instance, my Kalashnikov has a high-capacity clip. I tried loading it with just 30 rounds, and it could fire off about 15 – the last 15-20 had no spring pressure behind them to come out. Fill the clip up, and it fires forever. Now, it’s possible that if it’s filled with 50, exactly 30 will be fired – need to do further testing. However, this shows nerfing a high-cap clip to standard size may prove problematic for some guns. Not sure this can be an option. Game testing required.

A third option is to allow SAWs higher damage calls. Now, this isn’t FH where you’re required to call damage for every hit. Simply yell “TWO” once as you open fire, and the target will know your weapon deals two damage with every pellet. Now, when there’ s eight people firing at you, you may not be able to tell which pellets are higher damage. Like I said, damage calls have worked extremely well in Serenity, but I don’t recall ever facing more than three or four opponents at once. Game testing required.

Cock-n-fire spring action guns will be free to use even for characters without any combat skill.

If we go with a sniper call, the sniper will be required to have a radio. At least one of the opposing NPCs will also have a radio at all times. The sniper need only call the NPC and describe his target. The NPC then just yells “Yo! Eddie! You just took a sniper round from your 2 o’clock!”

I have been researched airsoft saw's. What people are saying is the saws are nasty and overpower normal combat rifles. Here is why.

Combat rifles
1. The max clip you typicaly can get is about 330BB. The problem with these clips is you have to wind them every 20-30 shots. So there needs to be a pause inbetween bursts
2. The ROF is between 8-12 BB's per sec

Saws - The reason they are so cool
1. They have clips that can up to 5,000 BB's which are contuniously feed into the gun. No delays when firing
2. The ROF is typicaly 15-18 BB's per sec's

These are major benifits on the airsoft field which makes SAWS assome and worth the investment! So I don't think we need to make SAWS any cooler than they already are! Need to get one to test it out! In the name of research

As for counting Ammo, what does that do for the game. You will get emrision when you run out of bullets and have to throw in another clip or even worse use a speed loader to fill your clip. At that time, it does not matter how much ammo you carry becasue you left your self open to attack. That is why a side arm is your friend!
And not to mention how troublesome it will be for NPC and PC's to keep track of ammo spent and buying more.
I can see where you are concerned about everyone opening up in a battle and unloading, but the rules can be written up with that in mind.
I was thinking only the folks who are willing to spend many points into high clip capacity or buy a SAW, will have that advatange. I'm envisioning many different type of skills and you must chose wisely to get the type of build you want.

Doug, I need to get you out to my house and play some airsoft. I would like to play test some of our ideas out!

Likewise! And excellent info on SAWs! You’re right – with constant feed, super-high capacity, and higher rate of fire, a high-quality SAW is superior enough on its own. No need for any rules to boost its capability.
However, are there low quality SAWs out there? A massive phys-rep single-shot spring-action, for instance? I’d like to avoid requiring players to spend a great deal to achieve their character concept, if possible. If someone can get such a cheap SAW, he should still probably be granted higher damage calls.

I noticed the winding thing with my Kalashnikov last night. And that’s a good thing. No, players should never have to count their shots. Use extra clips preloaded with a real-world number of rounds, speed loaders premarked with clip sizes, or count a clip expended each time you have to wind your high-cap clip up. Don’t have to be very accurate – approximations are fine. With winding high cap clips, you just tick off a virtual clip each time you perform a winding operation. Knowing you have, say, 12 clip pouches, you know exactly how much ammo is available to you.
Don’t have time to wind it up all the way? No problem. You lost a clip when you began your winding, and you’ll lose another clip after just a few shots when you need to wind it again – the price paid for a faster clip-change time.

Which brings up another topic – handing virtual clips off to your friends in need. Real clips or loaders you can just toss. Virtual clip handoff can be represented by requiring a handshake for each clip.

The cheapest saw I have come across is about $320. A saw by definetion needs to be electronic and if you find a rep that is spring loaded, than it is just a rifle.

I would like to test your clip idea and dicuss it more detial. I can see your desire of wanting to limit ammo carrying to a point. Should running out of ammo during a gun battle be a problem. Possibly. I can see coming up with a way to limit the ammount of lead a person can carry.

True – if it’s a single-shot pump action it falls under the ‘free’ category, and conveys no special ability – no matter what the gun is modeled after.

Weapons
General Rules
1. If you have the Physrep of the weapon, you have the weapon in game.
2. All players have unlimited access to normal gun ammo, aka BB’s only
3. Must have the appropriate skill to use a weapon. No free weapon skills
4. If a weapon physrep has the following items on it, it has it in game also at no cost
a. Scope, any
b. Laser
c. Flashlight
5. All BB’s do 1 damage
6. All melee weapons do 1 damage
7. Must have the appropriate skill to use two weapons at once
8. Can use spring, electric, and gas powered weapons unless specified others wise
9. No fire works allowed. Safety concerns and fire hazards

Weapons and skills

Pistol
Description – A weapon that can be used in one hand
Clip Size – 9-16 BB’s
Max FPS – 350
Max rate of fire - 8-10 BB’s per sec

Pistol Skill
Level 1 – Can use a spring powered pistol
Level 2 – Can use a semi automatic pistol
Level 3 – Can use an automatic pistol
Level 4 – Can use an extend clip which can hold a maximum of 300-330 BB’s

SMG
Description – A weapon that can be used in one or 2 hands
Clip Size – 30-60 BB’s
Max FPS – 350
Max rate of fire - 10-12 BB’s per sec

SMG Skill
Level 1 – Can use a spring powered SMG
Level 2 – Can use a semi automatic SMG
Level 3 – Can use an automatic SMG
Level 4 – Can use an extend clip which can hold a maximum of 300-330 BB’s

Rifle/Machine Gun
Description – A weapon that must be used in 2 hands
Clip Size – 30-60 BB’s
Max FPS – 350
Max rate of fire - 10-12 BB’s per sec

Rifle/machine gun Skill
Level 1 – Can use a spring powered rifle/machine gun
Level 2 – Can use a semi automatic rifle/machine gun
Level 3 – Can use an automatic rifle/machine gun
Level 4 – Can use an extend clip which can hold a maximum of 300-330 BB’s

Shot Gun
Description – A weapon that must be used in 2 hands.
Clip Size – 10-12 Shots
Max FPS – 350
Max rate of fire - 10-12 BB’s per sec

Shot Gun Skill
Level 1 – Can use a spring powered shot gun
Level 2 – Can fire multiple BB’s in 1 shot
Level 3 – Can use an extend clip which can hold a maximum of 60 shots per clip/shell. Also can use semi auto automatic shot gun
Level 4 – Can use an automatic shot gun


Sniper
Description – A weapon that must be used in 2 hands. Can not shoot a person unless they are at least 100 feet away. Requires GM approval and weapon testing to use a sniper rifle.
Clip Size – 5-10 Shots
Max FPS – 400-450
Max rate of fire – Spring Powered Only

Sniper 1 shot skill
Can use a sniper weapon with GM approval and if the sniper weapons passes weapon testing. Can not shoot a person with a sniper rifle unless they are at least 100ft away. If a person charges you, you must drop (not use) the sniper rifle when they are closer than 100 ft.

Support Machine Gun
Description – A weapon that must be used in 2 hands. Fires a stream of lead at a target
Clip Size – 2,500 - 5000 BB’s
Max FPS – 350
Max rate of fire – 12-15 BB’s per Sec

Support Machine Gun 1 shot skill
Can use a support machine

Grenade
Description – A portable explosive that damages only troops. A person can not fall onto a grenade to save their squad do to safety concerns. There are certain grenades that will only stun, poison, knockout people, etc….
Physrep
– Air soft BB grenade (flings BB’s)
- Air soft powder Grenade
-Air soft sound Grenades
- Packet (Lash)
- Fake Rubber Grenade (Lash)
- Smoke Grenades – A real smoke grenade (No Damage)
- Flash Bang – A real flash bang grenade (No damage)
Damage Call
- Air soft BB grenade (take 5 damage if it by a BB) – No call
- Air soft Powder grenade (take 5 damage if the powder hits you) – No call
- Air soft sound grenade (take 5 damage if you are 10 feet from the grenade when it goes off) – No call
- Packet and Fake grenade. Call is “Grenade 5 Lash” (Everything in a 10ft radius takes 5 damage). Damage occurs where the grenade lands.

Grenade Skill one shot
Knows how to handle, store, and throw all types of grenades. Must buy grenades in game. Once they are used, they are gone.


Rocket Launcher
Description – A weapon that can fire explosive rockets. Rockets can be used to damage buildings, vehicles, and troops. A person can not fall onto a rocket to save their squad do to safety concerns. There are certain rockets that will only poison knockout people, etc….
Physrep
– Nerf Long Bow or Nerf N Strike 3 in 1 Unity Power System
- Air soft Foam rocket. Uses gas to launch the foam rocket from a air soft shell system.
Damage Call
- Call is “Rocket 5 Lash” (Everything in a 10ft radius takes 5 damage). Damage occurs where the rocket lands.

Rocket Launcher Skill one shot
Knows how to handle, store, and use rocket launchers. Must buy rockets in game. Once they are used, they are gone.

Air Soft Grenade Shells
Description – This is a special air soft shell that holds 60-220 BB’s which launches all of them when triggered. The shell is gas powered.
Shot Size – 60-220 BB’s
Max FPS – 350
Physrep
- Under the gun mount, single shot
- 6 shot grenade launcher
Damage – Person is to take 5 damage if hit by the burst of BB’s. This means even if you get hit by 1 or 100 of them, you will take 5 damage

Air Soft Grenade Shell Skill one shot
Can use the air soft grenade shell system. Can use under the gun system, single shot gun, or 6 shot launcher.

IED’s, Mines, Explosives, Claymores
Description – An explosive type device that explodes when triggered. It does damage to damage buildings, vehicles, and troops. A person can not fall onto an explosive to save their squad do to safety concerns.
Physrep
- Air soft BB Claymores & Mines (take 8 damage if it by a BB) – No call
- Air soft Powder Claymores & Mines (take 8 damage if the powder hits you) – No call
- Buzzer device – If a device emits a buzzer sound an explosion takes place from the device. Everything in a 10ft radius of the buzzer takes 8 damage.

Explosive Skill
Level 1 – Can set explosive devices. Need to purchase the explosives in game
Level 2 - Can find hidden land mines. Takes 1 minutes to search a 10ft x 10ft square
Level 3 – Can build your own explosives. Start each event with 2 explosives
Level 4 – Can disarm explosives. If with in 5 ft of an explosive when it goes off, you can spend 1 minute is disarm it. If you fall unconious or die during this 1 minute, the explosive goes off still at that momonent of death or unconiousness. All around in the area of effect will take the damage


Explosive Bow and Arrow
Description – Uses an arrow that has an impact explosive built into the tip. Arrows can be used to damage buildings, vehicles, and troops. A person can not fall onto a arrow to save their squad do to safety concerns. There are certain arrows that will only poison knockout people, etc….
Physrep
– Larp safe bow and arrow
Damage Call
- Call is “explosive arrow 5 Lash” (Everything in a 10ft radius takes 5 damage). Damage occurs where arrow lands.

Explosive Bow and Arrow Skill one shot
Knows how to handle, store, and use explosive arrows. Must buy explosive arrows in game. Once they are used, they are gone.

Other Combat Skills

Unarmed Combat Skill – One Shot
Allows a person to dual wield 2 24” long larp safe fist physrep. Physrep need to be white. Can block any melee attacks and do 1 damage.

Knife Skill
Allows a person to use a 24” long larp safe knife or a rubber stage prop knife. Knife can be any color expect white. Can block any melee attacks and do 1 damage. Can be used in one hand.

Short Melee Weapon Skill – One Shot
Allows a person to use a 24”-36” long larp safe weapon. Weapon can be any color expect white. Can block any melee attacks and do 1 damage. Can be used in one hand.

Long Melee Weapon Skill – One Shot
Allows a person to use a 36”- 48” long larp safe weapon. Weapon can be any color expect white. Can block any melee attacks and do 1 damage. Must be used in 2 hands

Riot Shield skill– One shot
Can use a larp safe shield. Max size is 2ft wide by 4ft tall. Shield can not be see through. Shield protects against any melee or BB’s attack with the following exceptions, BB’s from grenades, mines and Claymores. Shield does not protect from explosive attacks and you will still take full damage from explosion. Can only use a knife, short melee weapon, and up to a semi automatic pistol and or SMG.

2 handed fighting skill – one shot
Can use and fight with a weapon in each hand. Can only use knife’s, short Melee weapons, all pistols, and all one handed SMG’s.

I was also thinking, what if a person only dies by reaching X negatives and bleeding to death. Direct damage can not kill a person, just lead to it?
I'm viewing the PC's a very tough, herioc folks that can take a beating and keep on ticking.
Is it realistic, no, but fun to play, I think yes.
I guess how much PC fear of death are you envisioning. I personaly want some which can mitagated with being smart. Run off by yourself, you most likely will be killed. Work as a team, it will take something big to take the squad down. But watch out for those explosions!!!
Like in real combat, working as team will help everyone to live/survive.

Also, what are you envisioning the rate people can repop their health? Nobody wants to be out of action for long, but need to make it long enough to prevent people being crazy/stupid.

Cool ideas – I’ll look them over. Right now, I’d like to play-test the current rules on health, damage, and death. See if automatic weapons lead to too many deaths, or if most casualties do indeed end up as wounded in need of medical attention. Right now, I’m thinking every 15 minutes back at base heals a life point. That’s about 2 hours for the hardiest folk even if they had to be medivaced from the field.

More Ideas

Safety
The minimum protection to play this game is a pair of safety glass that wrap around. Protects from the front and side.
It is advised to wear goggles up to a full face mask, hat, gloves, pants, and long sleeve shirt. The more protection, the less sting the BB’s will have.

In live fire zones you are not allowed to fire at a person if you are 5 feet or closer to them. When you are that close, please yell “BANG”. For each “BANG”, the person takes 1 damage. It is advised you do the same if you are 10-5 feet from a person.

In the No-Fire Zones (Area’s where eye protection is not required), you must put your gun on safety and holster them. If the gun is not in a holster, you must place a gun plug on the gun. Do not point a loaded gun at person in the no-fire zones.

Weapon discharges are not allowed in No-Fire Zones. If a person fires a weapon in a No-Fire Zone they will be asked to leave the game. Safety First! If you want to fight in a No-Fire Zone, you must use melee weapons and attacks.

In game there is unwritten rule at base camp (and no-fire zones) the use of fire arms and any explosive is punishable by death. Both NPC’s and PC’s will hunt down the person or person’s responsible for the infraction and bring justice to them.

If one still wants to use fire arms and or explosives in a No-Fire Zone, you must follow these rules
Combat in No-Fire Zones is carried out by calling “BANG” - rather than pulling the trigger. Single shot weapons must do a 5-count between each shot. Semi- and Full-Auto weapons may fire as fast as the player can call damage articulately. All shots are automatic hits provided your target is visible. Make sure there is no confusion as to who your target is. Get your target’s attention, if necessary. “Hey! Indian Sniper! ‘BANG” ,“BANG”
When using explosives in No-Fire Zones, please use a Buzzer system for explosives, foam nerf rockets for RPG, Larp safe arrows for explosive arrows, and packets or foam grenades. You are not allowed to use any equipment that fires BB’s or a Powder in to the air.

Damage
Unless otherwise stated, damage is first applied to Luck, then Armor, then Body. All lost Luck points return after the character spends 10 minutes out of combat. Destroyed armor must be replaced, and Body points return at a rate of 1 per 15 minutes while the character is in a Medical Facility.

Health Levels:
1 or higher – Soldier is fully active and capable.
0 – Person can not run
-1 – Person can not stand and must crawl to move. Can use all other skills/actions
-2 – Person is conscious and can talk. Can do nothing else.
-3 – Person is bleeding to death and will die in 1 minute unless they receive medical help. Person is unconscious, can not talk or use any skill or do any action. Taking additional damage will do nothing to the person.

Wounded soldiers in Base Camp are considered to be at the Medical Facility where they regain one body every 15 minutes. Arrival at a Medical Facility stops any death count and healing begins immediately. The doctors there will not allow a combat medic to simply dress some wounds to get a soldier out earlier, nor will they allow a soldier to be discharged before full recovery without the express permission of the Company Commander. Medical Facilities will also detoxify patients and clean out radiation.

More Skills

Note on Skills – Taking damage does not interrupt the use of a skill.

Medic:
Level 1: Status (Requires Brains 1)
Can touch a person and determine their health status. Ie, The life points they are at, poisoned, rad, unconious, dead (and for how long), etc…

Level 1: First Aid (Requires Brains 2, 1 Bandage)
Spend one minute to stop a person from bleeding to death. Must wrap the Bandage around the person wounds. Person is stable to move, but is still at -3. Person is considered to be stabilized. Any additional damage to the wounded person will start them bleeding to death again. Person stops bleeding to death when first aid is being administered. If first aid is stopped before the 1 minute, the wounded person continues there bleed to death count.


Level 3: Triage (Requires Brains 3, 1 Surgery Kit)
Spend 5 minutes to heal a stabilized soldier who is in negative life to zero life.

Level 4: Miracle Worker ((Requires Brains 4, 1 Plasma)
If the medic can get to a dead person with in 1 minute of their death they can bring them back. It takes 1 minutes to use this skill and the person is brought back at -3 and is bleeding to death.


Camouflage Skill – One Shot
Can use a gilly suit. While in the gilly suit you can not be detected by UAV’s (Aka, you do not need to stand up and call out when there is a UAV detection.


And yes, I was thinking there could be some drugs that give temporary benifits! Cool little things the PC's can spend their money on!

More Ideas

Enhancers
Note: All enhacner effects last for 1 hr. Can only be under the effect on 1 enhancer at a time. A new enhancer will have no effect if a person is currently under the effects of an enhancer.
Red Combat Haz - Only takes 10 minutes to recover your luck when out side of combat instead of the standard 15 minutes
Purple Hardy - It takes you 2 minutes to bleed to death instead of 1 minute
Purge - Cancels out any enhancer in a person system
Telling - Must speak only truth while under the effects of this enhancer
Blue Balls - can not be detected by UAV’s
Red Lighting - gain +1 luck


Equipment And Services

Cost
Light Armor- 2 Armor Need skill to use. Must replace once damaged
Heavy armor- 4 Armor Need skill to use. Must replace once damaged
Bandage- Use w/ Medic lvl 2 Need skill to use. Destroyed on use
Surgery Kit- Use w/ Medic lvl 3 Need skill to use. Destroyed on use
Plasma- Use w/ Medic lvl 4 Need skill to use. Destroyed on use
Gilly Suite -can not be detected by UAV’s Need skill to use.
Gun Silencer- Can say "BANG" loud enough for the target to hear it. Must buy a silencer for each weapon

Skills
Combat Reflex’s – One Shot
Only takes 10 minutes to recover your luck when out side of combat instead of the standard 15 minutes.

Hardy – One Shot
It takes you 2 minutes to bleed to death instead of 1 minute

Special Op’s
Level 1: Scrounger (Requires Brains 1)
2 times per event you can pull 1 item worth $250-$500 or less and use it. You do not need to have the item on yourself at the time or do you need to have ever purchased it. Cannot store up items that you do not use.

Level 2: Breaking and Entering (Requires Brains 2, Lock Picks)
Can pick any mechanical lock. Time is 1 minute per level of lock.

Level 3: Code Master (Requires Brains 3, Code Breaker)
Can open any electronic lock. Time is 1 minute per level of lock

Level 4: Quick Thinking (Requires Brains 4)
Can spend 1 minute to disable any mechanical or electronic security system in a given 10ft x 10ft area. Must be able to physically have access to area to search it. You can disarm a security system on a door, but not a pressure plate on the other side.


Body Armor Light – One Shot
Can wear light body armor. Grants 2 armor. Need to wear a physrep that covers 1/3 of the body. Example, flak jacket, etc

Body Armor Heavy – One Shot
Can wear heavy body armor. Grants 4 armor. Need to wear a physrep that covers ¾ of the body. Chest, back, legs, arm’s, head.

Additional Rules
-If a BB hits your weapon, you still take the damage.
- A melee weapon must hit the person to do damage

All skills will require a minimum attribute requirement to be able to learn the skill

Looking at 4-6 events a year. 1 day to full weekend


Leveling System/Stats

Attributes:
Body – The aggregate strength and toughness of a character.
Brains – The intelligence of the character.
Reflexes- The responsiveness and precision of a character.

Characters start off with 5 Physical Attribute points. Must have at least 1 point in each attribute

Life – The amount of damage a person can take. 1 hit removes 1 body
Luck – Represents your ability to dodge out of the way of danger. 1 hit removes 1 luck

Life equals your body attribute
Luck equals your reflexes attribute


You gain so many character points per event and will start out with so many. You will gain many character points at first than it will slope off.

Starting characters – 15-20 character points

Events and the number of character points received. If you pay for the event, you get the character points even if you do not show up.
1. 15 CP’s
2. 15 CP’s
3. 10 CP’s
4. 10 CP’s
5. 5 CP’s
6. 5 CP’s
7. 3 CP’s for each event afterwards

Skill costs
One shots 1-20 CP’s

Leveled Skill’s
Level 1 – 1 CP’s
Level 2 – 3 CP’s
Level 3 – 6 CP’s
Level 4 – 10 CP’s

Attribute points
1 extra – 5 CP’s
2 Extra - 10 CP’s
3 Extra - 15 CP’s
4 Extra – 20 CP’s
5 Extra (Max) – 30 CP’s

This currently puts max soak with armor to 18 hits.
Starting minimum soak – 2
Starting max soak with armor – 8 hits

Numbers need to be balanced out, but this just explains the concept. There will always be character growth because most of the skill will just let you use more equipment and weapons which you still have to lug around. Eventually you will be able to have all the skill in game, but will take you a long, long time. And you can only use one active skill at a time. Sure you can be a medic and a heavy gunner, but good luck on doing both at the same time. I’m trying to go with a GURPs concept where you can customize your character to what you want. You just need the points. If you have points, you can learn the skill. No teachers are required!

Not my kind of flavor, personally, but I like the thoughts here. Interesting read.

Feedback is appreciated and wanted.

Hedi, you don't like being shot at and shooting people It's fun!!