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Kiel speaks truly. I have MANY books that Esmerelda has received in game. And, in fact read aloud to an audience of PCs who couldn't read. (Further Adventures of Super Dad, Anyone?) And I have things ranging from a short half page poem to an amazing novella that gives the background of an NPC near and dear to Es. As Kiel also pointed out, they tend to get handed to me because I'm a sage. In fact of all the ones I have I think I've personally found maybe 1 myself.

Now are they written in other languages? Usually not. I did get one very long piece that was encoded and that was the 5 a.m. decipher script incident I was referring to.

Would I like to see things come in other languages? Most definitely. Do I want to see the skill go away? Never.

Hmmm... may have to go dig out the backback and list all the written things I have stashed away in there....

GM_Chris wrote:

An idea for the GM's, actually write notes in gobleygook, runes or symbols and have a copy of what it actually says at npc camp. Then you don't have the metagaming thing for languages.

Not a bad idea, and might be used. Problem is EVERYTHING that can be, must be moved away from NPC camp

This amused me because this is how we did it for the first 2 to 3 years. I typed everything in wingdings, with a note at the top for the 'language'. Then they could trade them in for the 'english' copies.
aaaaanndd...
Everyone biched about it. PCs didnt like having to 'exchange something they 'should have been able to read', and the GMs hated it because it was another reason to come to NPC camp.

I completely agree with CJ about how read/write could come in very handy. I would like to see plots with an in game manuscript that could only be read by certain people. Although most players with the skill have not actually found it often useful, there are certain scenarios where one would be glad to have it.

Not to mention how easy of a skill read/write is to acquire. It's a lvl 1 discipline skill, which means one could have the skill for free, and it's also the only skill that can be bought with half of the starting points you would use to get equipment, upkeep tags, etc.

I've even heard of some combat-oriented skills be deemed as "useless" among players who have them... how many monsters have you successfully disarmed or caused fear to? What good is repel when you've got banish? Is it really going to make a difference if I call "one" or "one magic?" Not to mention all the political skills... but you get my point. I believe there exists a possible situation for every skill in the game to become useful.

I like the idea of the staples or folding like potion tags.

expect to see more like that.

I would agree that the majority of things that comes in are written in common. But definitely not all. I know, for obvious reasons, a lot of things written in elven went in last year, for example. We can definitely do more with languages.

That said, even if it is written in common, it still requires the skill to use. Just pointing it out to reemphasize my surprise that people have never seen the skill used

I think the one major plot device that I have been part of was the Adventures of Superdad (which was really cool, by the way, Mike). Before that, I think it was hints on a treasure plot that Jared made, way back when I played Durgan. I don't count the puzzles that are wither mathematical problems, or code that is actually meant for a player's knowledge to figure out, rather than character knowledge).

So, no it's not a dig on you Mike, just expressing what I've seen, and showing that even with what little I have been able to use it, I still think Read/Write is still cool to have.

Saying a skill should dissapear because it's not used isn't the way to go (even hypothetically). Otherwise, we should drop Rhul's racial boon, and Monk/Druids ranged block, or a Druid's ''no movement penalties'' Snake Totem, because those are three skills I count on rarely ever using in-game.

-Disease immunity three times in two years- only in melee combat. The least used boon, I would say.

-Ranged block never because you can rarely tell if an NPC held packet is going to be magic, crush, or an arrow, so it's an incidental skill at most, not worth the time to mimic.

-Movement only if you know the location we might be going to will have that penalty (seen it once). Or if for some reason you are lucky enough to have it mimic'ed when something like arctic blast is called, and you are in the AOE.

But read/write is almost the level of lifestyle for what defines a character. Rhul would be totally different if he couldn't read the novels he carries around. In fact, reading is what elevated him above being "just a savage" (not to mention motivating him to come help you in the An'Dar ruins in the first place).

Hey, I'm just brainstorming. Thanks for all the ideas so far.

And I mean the spoken language thing more from a plot/npc standpoint, rather than a PC to PC standpoint, since it comes up once in awhile. I'd like to be able to declare (mechanically) that I speak X language without having to add a new (largely useless) skill to the game. It would give it SOME more flexibility.

Yes, but how do you get 2 people speaking X language to each other in a room full of people who can not?

I don't think you can with the whole metagame thing..

-Disease immunity three times in two years- only in melee combat. The least used boon, I would say.

Not true. I've seen disease used in every single event I've attended in the past two years.

-Ranged block never because you can rarely tell if an NPC held packet is going to be magic, crush, or an arrow, so it's an incidental skill at most, not worth the time to mimic.

Actually it is a much better skill than most people think, especially since recently (ie this past year) NPC archers at both games have at least carried a bow. As for the crush, I've only seen one NPC packet-drive crush, and that was at a one day.

-Movement only if you know the location we might be going to will have that penalty (seen it once). Or if for some reason you are lucky enough to have it mimic'ed when something like arctic blast is called, and you are in the AOE.

Can't argue with this at all.

Yes, but how do you get 2 people speaking X language to each other in a room full of people who can not?

You OOG learn a new language. That is the only way to do it.

"Saying a skill should dissapear because it's not used"


I don't want to remove it only because of that. I want to remove it for OOG/OOC issues it causes(like passwall), AND the fact that it is very difficult to enforce.

But I don't dislike it that much to put a stink up. If PCs want it, cool, I have no problem making is as useful as we can.

You either trust the players you play with, you don't, or realistically you're some where in the middle. I expect that some people are going to metagame the same way I expect that some people won't fall when they are supposed to or combine things that aren't supposed to be combined, misuse potions and rituals because they happen to read the tag wrong, or count a little too fast in combat. It happens, in a perfect world it wouldn't. So accept that fact and move on. Report it when you feel it's a gross infraction and let the GM's handle it. If you start talking in a language that the ONE other person around can't understand expect them to vamoos and don't automatically think it's metagaming. That would be ANY seasond gamers response. If you are in a room full of people, don't assume that noone in the room can understand you and start talking about stuff you shouldn't in mixed company. I don't understand why everyone expects that every skill is going to be useful at every event or that their character needs to personally be involved any time anything their character can do is brought in to game. How many locks do you think I've come across that weren't PC locks? It's only been a few but when it happens I have the skills to take care of it.

I've come across things written in other PC languages, I handed them off to people I trust IG that could read those languages.

why ohh must i always agree with temple.?

hehehe.

Zydana wrote:Yes, but how do you get 2 people speaking X language to each other in a room full of people who can not?

I don't think you can with the whole metagame thing..

Apparently I am not explaining this well enough, so let me expand. I've had scenes with characters speaking in elvish and other assorted giberish, usually NPCs. Said NPCs were speaking nonsense words (as far as English goes, anyway). This is how.

I'm not talking about it being a PC communication tool. I'm talking about how you declare: "Hey, uh, I speak elvish/troll/orc/lizardman?"

It's the argument I heard in this thread with read/write "oh, everyone will just say they can read/write every language if there is no skill." Same deal. What's stopping me from saying "I speak every language. Oh, chipmunk? I speak that too." There really isn't anything stopping me at all.

I still don't think read/write is on the same par as say any other basic skill (Which is why I think it's twice as silly that sages only get three basic skills), but I'm not necessarily voting it out at this point (At least as a Sage, I have the option to drop it like a rock for something else if I want to). I'm just asking to add a usability to the skill for SOMETHING that I have seen come up before. It's still infrequent, but it does happen, and I'd like to know what languages I can actually speak without just assuming I know everything. This is the easiest way, it doesn't add a completely new rule, and it doesn't take read/write out. I also don't think it DESERVES a skill slot, since it comes up only about as often as read/write. But it DOES come up.

Good question.

I think the answer for the moment is roleplaying - and the call of the GM (or NPC) there at the scene.

"Hey, look. I have read/write elf. Also, I am an elf. Chances are, I can speak it too."

Their discretion as there currently is no mechanic.

Or.. all spoken languages (other than common) are lost now after the cataclysm. It's just some fluke that this particular elf knew how to speak something other than common..

.. or is it possible she was speaking jibberish?

I don't think it's that the other laguages don't exist, it's just that most races with their own private languages seem to have fallen to speaking common as the standard 'trade language', out of necessity after the cataclysm.