Eli wrote: Then there is the Elves
I am still not sure why upon being an elf and a mage and an empath I wasn't killed by npc's just for being. Not saying I want to be killed, but the plots, including PC driven ones have basically taken arguably the most Noble race in 90% of RPG's and turned them into their dark skinned kin. Heck there is even a PC who is the product of elf rape!? I've never heard of such a thing. Humans taking an elf woman sure, but vis versa. I suppose it could happen but then I've always seen them as too civilized for that sort of behavior. Not to mention not being driven by sexual desires or even considering as a form of gaining power over another. Sort of like they don't really have base level crimes only major stuff like, idk genocide of all none elves. Basically Elves are now a mix of humans and dark elves, which is just weird to me. I heard in game this last event how dark elves were so much more trustworthy than light elves. I just cannot see Elves as the ultimate "evil" race in a game.
I'm not sure how off-topic this is for the thread. So, sorry if it's a derail.
I love reading people's opinions on roleplaying matters, so I hope if I'm playing devil's advocate here (and I'm not, really, just reflecting), I'm not stepping on anyone else. It is also not meant to be a rant, just a ramble. Also not meant to be a reflection of Final Haven or Winter Haven staff's opinions, just mine. End of disclaimer.
The problem is, you have to decide as a GM and world-builder, how much control you allow the players to have over personalizing their character, especially in this setting, where a lot has happened and a lot of variety from a roleplaying standpoint is possible. You also have to be consistent about it, or people get upset. If a player is following all the mechanical rules, at what point do you choose to say "No, I don't feel that is appropriate for that race. You need to play your character THIS way." At what point do you tell someone they are roleplaying badly? You really can't, fairly. You can try to help them or educate them (After all, they just might have a misinterpretation of the setting), but you can't really "force" them to play a certain way. We have people here who pretty much state they don't really roleplay. Do you tell those people they aren't welcome if they aren't out-right breaking immersion for other players with OOC and lack of costuming? Yes, stereotypes have to come from somewhere, but players are meant and allowed to break that mold, as far as I'm concerned.
For examples, there were dwarves like Lambic who didn't like the fire element thing (and didn't know about it when they created their character) and after they heard about it were like "Huh? Oh, no...I'm an Aldestan dwarf." I don't seem to recall the GMs going "Yeah, you can't do that. Roleplay it the way we want you to, or don't play at all."
Should they have disallowed Corbyn's activities? After all, if elves are supposed to be goodness incarnate, very little that he did could be said to be done justifiably. We don't know the character's exact mindset or reasoning (or that of the elves), but he certainly didn't fit that mold. Should the GMs have stepped in and said: "We don't feel this is appropriate behavior for an elf, cease and desist immediately."
Technically, I don't think I've ever seen a long-lived race played the way it's probably supposed to be, because it's hard as a human being to replicate the sensation of nigh-immortality.
Players will view things the way they want to. Player characters are seeing the elves as evil, because they are looking at a mix of Corbyn's actions and the elves. They are lumping both in together, because of their perspectives on the situation. That is not something the GMs are responsible for, this is a natural evolution of player perspective.
Let's look at another perspective on the elves (I bring these perspectives up based on something I've been writing for awhile, which makes all of this the more, erm, interesting for me) A disclaimer here that I'm NOT talking about the acceptability of real-world counterparts in war/torture/politics or whatever. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not reply to me about Hitler, Stalin and various religions, I'm trying to analyze this from a purely In-Character (Not necessarily one of mine, just in general) level of information:
Were people really sure that the elves were going to "enslave" the Havenites, not just unify the scattered people of the world? Was there proof of that elsewhere? They'd been sending in diplomats for a long time and got impolite brush-offs, not to mention, worse. Diplomats were poisoned, disrespected and otherwise abused when they were only offering options and benefits. Even in the active battle, they offered quarter until they were laughed at and attacked. Most of the outright murder in the final battle was PCs against PCs, however coerced.
It may have been a thought that rankled the PCs, living under the banner of the elves, but would they really be such bad rulers that the Havenites were fighting so hard and dirty for independence? Were the Havenites REALLY doing such a good job of ruling themselves? Seriously? Would it have been so bad to have a barbarian army come marching into town and as Vassals to the elves, be able to tell the elves "Yeah, we're being attacked, as your vassals, we need help." The elves probably had little interest in killing the farmers/tradesmen/fishermen/etc, that was orchestrated by other people, to the best of my knowledge, they might have been better protected by the elves than by the PCs. How many times did a townsperson come in begging for help, just to be brushed off or told that "other matters are more pressing for us." How many townspeople were killed for walking into town?
Are the actions of the elves really that unthinkable? Or is this a natural evolution of such a long-lived race? After all, most people have the view of elves as arrogant...isn't it possible that maybe they've just finally had enough with the rest of the world messing things up affecting them, that they feel they have to take an active stand as one of the elder races?
Even things people might consider evil by some elves can be attributed to current events and long lives: Boredom is the big one here, but good, old fashioned self-justified superiority comes in at a VERY close second, and I think someone would have a hard time convincing me that most elves aren't at least a little bit conceited (justifiably or otherwise). I don't necessarily think the former one applies to the elves at large (although it goes a long way to explaining the perceived "cruel" actions of some elves), but the latter? After all, if you are wiser, older, stronger and more civilized than everyone else, don't you have the burden of sharing that with the rest of the world? And if they are too ignorant to be honored by what is being offered, well, maybe you have to force it on them, for their own good, of course, because, well, they don't know any better.
Just some food for thought from the mouth of a sometime fantasy philosopher.
**WARNING: SOME DISCUSSION OF ADULT CONTENT BELOW. STOP HERE IF THAT BOTHERS YOU **
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Now, because it segues into highly adult matters, I think issues like rape, torture and other "Adult Content" in a character's background, MIGHT be something the GMs should be involved in, or at least informed of, so they can be aware of possible problems. Maybe. I don't know on that one.
Unless it's solo material, or it's something worked out-later, I don't generally go beyond a FADE-TO-BLACK in any kind of roleplaying, because it's too hard to tell where people's borders for comfort (and reality) are. I'm fortunate enough to understand my boundaries, and tell people to stop when I feel they are going too far, but not everyone does. I'm comfortable with physical contact in a LARP, in fact, I like hugs and embraces, hands on shoulders, teasing, leading, dragging, etc, even those "rougher" actions, most things one could think of in a LARP and I am able to keep those actions In-Character without complications. There are only a few things I would consider too far (that's what the safe-words are for, right?), and while I'm comfortable with verbal descriptions of such actions, actual physical sexual activities involving fluids and whatnot
are a definite no-no, and should be, as it creates RL complications. In fact, it's even in the rulebook.
NPCing at Winterhaven, there are NPCs who have physically tortured PCs in-game. During a couple of these sessions, because we had to move the scene to a warmer location, the seated player in a safe area was blindfolded (To keep the immersion), they were not physically bound, of course, but we had them put their hands together, or hold them up as necessary, to simulate being bound, or during physical actions describing the torture. Player OOC comfort is a serious concern for me, I believe in every occurrence of this, before we even started, I verbally asked the player to PLEASE say something if they were uncomfortable or became uncomfortable and we would stop, because we wanted the game to be fun. If a scene like that isn't fun for the player, why would I do it? Actually, I think in a least one case, Travis and I were more scared than the player...you know who you are...you have one hell of a scary scream!
I don't feel adult content should be disallowed afterall, this is an adult game. The point remains (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone) that if you feel uncomfortable, even if it's just words, you need to speak up and use the safewords before someone gets past your trigger point. Even if you don't know, if you think you "might" be uncomfortable with the way the conversation is headed. Good or bad, some of my guilty-pleasure favorite plots were those of a more adult nature.
Hmmm...a half-elf because of rape by an elf? I can see where the thought is "Why would an elf do that?" See some of my above on Boredom. I don't think it would be highly normal elven behavior either, considering the genetic superiority thing, unless reproduction wasn't the desired or expected outcome, (I can, however, see an elf having a "pet") but it's not like most of the half-elves walking around have that kind of a background. Mine didn't.
