Rule changes and clarifications

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:47 pm

I think we have a section that is titled things everyone can do, but it is a good idea if it is not obvious.

Anyways, if we are asking people to cary physreps and you were already carring them, then how in the world are we punishing you? I do not understand?

As for going around and watching people through out an event. We do not do that currently. For example, I do not go around checking to see if people have talisman tags from arcanes. I do not go around randomly stopping people to look to see if they are carring their character sheet.

The rules are in plac and it is all on the honor system. Anyone can call a PC to question if they think the person is cheating. For example, you see a person doing something and you ask them how and they say "I have a talisman" and you say "Show me the tag" and they say "I did not get one" Well then I guess you do not have the talisman. The tags are to cover your behind incase you are called into question.

Now I want to comment on the out of game cost for an alchemist vs an arcane. I am hearing it is not fair. It is cheaper to be an arcane. Well it is cheaper to be an alchemist than a warrior in full plate. Should we requiere a person to not wear armor? It is cheaper for the person that wears sweats instead of actual pants. Should everyone wear sweats?

Do we as a game, want to strive for the lowest common denominator or do we want to strive for the something better?

Would I love to see all potions in a vial? YES Would I like to see insta drinking stopped? Yes Do I think we need to requiere that all of that? no

And as for expense I just did a quick search and we are looking at like REALLY cheap

http://www.freundcontainer.com/product. ... _A_cn_E_59

http://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin47a.html

We are talking around 14 cents each. I just priced 1200 for 168 bucks. if 10 people go in on it then that is 16 bucks a person and you would get 120 vials. That is 120 per person. That will probably last you at least 2 years. That is 4 cents a day.

How much money does is cost to make just 1 weapon? Or get some chips in a bag to be a healer?

Sheogorath · Post by **Sheogorath** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:59 pm

Going back to the Full metal reference. It is interesting that when I see that I picture it as being a cross between alchemy and arcane. Because they are essentially creating things yet there is a magical sense to it. Yet I think the way alchemy is in game kinda makes sense, referencing the old alchemical ways of trying to create gold. But that is more of the craftsman...Yet in terms of just potions I have seen that reference many places but do not know why they use it in that way.

Lambic · Post by **Lambic** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:53 pm

What I felt was being said is that "we are going to fix the problem of people carrying too many potions by making all potions required to be phys-reped." My point (whether made well or not) was that although this answer may successfully get you to your end it has more consequences than just fixing the initial problem. It affects more people than just those that were "carrying hundreds of potions."

I think the system most of us who were swapping phys-reps when they were used isn't to everyone's preference. Ok. I don't agree with it being a problem.

I meant by punishment that the rules would become more restrictive.

I agree that armor cost more than some vials. That is one of the reasons I didn't play a hardcore warrior, I couldn't afford it and I didn't want to wear painfully fake armor. Personal choice.

Those vials you posted links to are cheap and could be considered phys-reps. But I don't think the fit into a fantasy setting very well. So I wouldn't want to use them. Those look like one step above the losest common denominator to me.

I just don't see a major gain from going this way.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:19 am

GM_Chris wrote:
Now I want to comment on the out of game cost for an alchemist vs an arcane. I am hearing it is not fair. It is cheaper to be an arcane. Well it is cheaper to be an alchemist than a warrior in full plate. Should we requiere a person to not wear armor? It is cheaper for the person that wears sweats instead of actual pants. Should everyone wear sweats?

I don't think anyone wants the LCD (least common denominator) for the game. I know (although my attendance is a bit spotty) that I go as far as I can with costuming and such...although I'm no Fesko. And I am in the "lazy" bracket. Neither here nor there.

About the vial phys reps:

I can get access to plastic vials FREE. I just need some lead time. Don't ask any questions. Please PM me if anyone needs these.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:20 am

First, there are cheap ways to make potin vials. Cut up dowl rods, PVC pipe, use colored duct tape, etc... Vials are cheap. A minium vial size should be used ( needs to be 2" long). And a larger vial can be used to hold more doses. A 8" long vial can hold 4 doses. Just rmove the tags from the vial as they are used.

Secound, I would only enforce potion physreps for all the potions a person is carrying. One should not have to physrep a stockpile of potions hidden somewhere, only the ones being carried.

Third, To use a potion, a person must pull the correct one from there pouch, RP drinking it, open and read the tag. That how long it takes for a potion to take effect, unless specified in the formula (AKA-gas light sleep would be instant)

Fourth - No vial in hand, means no potion effect

Simple and straight foward

Response to other people's feedback
Why is lowering the mimic time broken? Would not lowering the time be more in line for the sage being jack of all trades? It will have very little effect in combat, and make the sage more effective in non combat stituations. Note the mimic skill only effects level 1 disapline skills, and basic paths skills. None of the very powerful

On helmets - I can go with, hats that do not cover 50% of ones heads still can be counted as a helmet, just would be considered a fake helmet.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:42 am

Lambic, how about if I say I would like to make a rule where everyone is doing exactly what you were doing.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:09 am

Ya know...ive been gaming since i was 11 and larping coming up on 20 years considering LARPIng is about DOING as opposed to TELLING/DESCRIBING ( hiting witha weapon not telling the DM you are, setting the trap rather than describing it, carrying the downed comrad instead of arguing wit the DM if you could do that and run or not, trying to hide the stolen loot in inyour shirt instead of spewing reasons at a DM why you can while he stares at you like he now realises why your job gets a tax break for hiring you...). I have never heard so much griping and whining over doing what makes LARPing different than table top.

My sUggestion is we scrap phys repping altogether and just bring dice, paper, and pencils and sit at tables and drink pop out of Big Gulp cups and eat pizza....

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:50 am

General Maximus wrote: Response to other people's feedback
Why is lowering the mimic time broken? Would not lowering the time be more in line for the sage being jack of all trades? It will have very little effect in combat, and make the sage more effective in non combat stituations. Note the mimic skill only effects level 1 disapline skills, and basic paths skills. None of the very powerful

I think the Mimic skill is fine. I think being able to use ANY* 1st level discipline or Basic Path skill after only spending 15 minutes to "study". I think that is huge. Making a lower time would make it more versatile, but I believe too powerful.

Lambic · Post by **Lambic** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:30 am

General Maximus wrote:First, there are cheap ways to make potin vials. Cut up dowl rods, PVC pipe, use colored duct tape, etc... Vials are cheap. A minium vial size should be used ( needs to be 2" long). And a larger vial can be used to hold more doses. A 8" long vial can hold 4 doses. Just rmove the tags from the vial as they are used.

I never though of multiple potions in one phys-rep. I like this idea and it has potential to fix my problem with required phys-reping of vials.

Secound, I would only enforce potion physreps for all the potions a person is carrying. One should not have to physrep a stockpile of potions hidden somewhere, only the ones being carried.

I disagree but it would be cool it you could phys-rep like barrels of potion.

Lambic, how about if I say I would like to make a rule where everyone is doing exactly what you were doing. Smile

Sorry if I'm coming on kinda strong. There maybe some personal reasons I'm getting so heated, and I apologize. I will try and remember to check my swings...verbally. BTW This made me smile Chris so thanks.

Ya know...ive been gaming since i was 11 and larping coming up on 20 years considering LARPIng is about DOING as opposed to TELLING/DESCRIBING .......

My sUggestion is we scrap phys repping altogether and just bring dice, paper, and pencils and sit at tables and drink pop out of Big Gulp cups and eat pizza....

Great. I'm glad you've been gaming so long. Now, please try and add something constructive to the conversation. Thanks.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:57 am

Marduk,

I'm trying to be mean, but can you provide an example with the mimic time being reduced being to powerful? I feel with the reduced time, the skill will be on par with the other path's higher level abilities. (parry, rage, surgery, mass heal, etc..)

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:11 am

I think what we want at our LARP is to make sure we are "doing" as Brian pointed out, while being as fair and balanced as possible without getting rid of doing, keeping the LARP inexpensive while still looking cool, and lastly, having an actual identity without being just a giant mushy LARP

That is the balance.

It is a VERY difficult balance. When you create too many paper skills then people get turned off. On the flip side you have too few and people get turned off. I will say that number wise I believe that having less means more people. I gather this by looking at attendance numbers at Euro larps, SCA, dag, Ampguard.

If you make it too cheap to play then things look cheap. NPC's are not in proper costume, PC's are only partially dressed. You make it so people have to have in period underwear and you are reaching the point of stupid. Basically what is the expectable amount of minimum that should be enforced in order to play?

Too much GM micromanaging and the game is not fun, too much and you have people taking advantage of rules.

I can go on and on this way.

Personally, I think players should always do as much as possible to elevate the game and the burden should be on players more than the GM’s. Maybe that is the republican in me. I just do not believe in raising the price of a game (taxes) so we the GM (government) can provide the stuff to the players. I would rather keep the game price low and come up with a minimum requirement for dress and physreps that is attainable, while maintaining a cool look. Then I look to the players to spend money to make themselves look as cool as they can and then help their fellow gamer out so they can look cool too.

As for potions? The way they are currently written there should be some physrepping just like for everything else. Basically what Lambic was doing, as I understand it, would be fantastic. Also, we never put a count on potion drinking because the rules state that you MUST read the tag. We assumed that reading the tag would take some time. We need to micromanage tag reading or put in a 5 count to push the point home?

OR

Is potion making, even though there are more alchemists than arcanes, somehow so choded out that we need to remake the system to take out the brewing of potions all together. I mean we could combine alchemy and arcane into a giant skill and rework all the potions into spells.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:17 am

Seeing as there has never been a time that it has been five minutes, no I cannot find a real-game example of when it is five minutes and being too powerful.

You know the stock answer. Playtest it. My intuition says it is too powerful. Shaving five or ten minutes off time for the mimic skill may or may not impact the power level of the path. However, I perceive the Sage as already being one of the two most powerful paths at the master level. I don't think it needs to be more powerful. It is one of those instances where the more creative you are, the more versatile and consequently the more powerful the character.

It is just my gut in defence of the awesomeness of Sage. No attack on your ideas.

I'm trying to be mean

Did you intend to say "not trying" because if that was mean, you can rough me up a little more. I'm not fragile.

Torakhan · Post by **Torakhan** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:21 am

*edited*

...wasn't worth keepin'. Wouldn't do any good anyways.

Post by **WayneO42** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:25 am

Calm down people. Dont make me get out the MOD stick.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:32 am

I've seen Wayne's Mod Stick. Its not pretty

Rule changes and clarifications

Constructive