Arcanes and Armor

Ravinal · Post by **Ravinal** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:32 pm

Of course, I won't be able to play any time this year.

Sheogorath · Post by **Sheogorath** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:09 pm

What if the arcane were like the 'battle mage' sense, like you had a warrior arcane. shouldn't through their training and past experiences know a way to cast magic while having heavy armor?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:19 pm

It is not in the rules. It is being argued that it is not too powerful.

I bow to public oppinion and I will test it this event by putting all of my arcane's in full plate.

NewGuy · Post by **NewGuy** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:21 pm

Ravinal wrote:And one more thing, if you see an enemy doing a spell. It's super easy to stop them if you have enough time to get to them. They have to roleplay casting the spell. They have to stand in one spot. They can not attack you or defend themselves while casting. And it usually takes a freak load of time to finish casting most spells. So if the caster wasn't set up in one spot in advance of a battle, then just tap them on the shoulder or stab them in the back. It doesn't really matter if they're wearing armor or not.

It might be worthwhile to take first level Grenadier...ranged damage with no charge time. Good for disruptions. And lets have any assassins with utilize poison just run through poisoning al the empaths.

Ravinal · Post by **Ravinal** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:37 pm

I am not saying that arcanist shouldn't be restricted to light armor. I'm not even saying whether heavy armor on an arcanist is too powerful or not. I'm saying that if one is able to get close enough. Heavy armor during spell casting isn't going to make a lick of difference. It may help in close combat, which is heavy armor's designed purpose. It helps a person stay alive longer. Having many arcanists in heavy armor in a line to take out an army is somewhat more powerful, I would guess, than not. For they would be able to live through a lot more. Yet it doesn't get their spells off any quicker to have armor on or not. It doesn't stop a person from having a soft tap of a fingernail end a spell. To my knowledge, the fastest arcane damage spell takes a full minute ranging to four minutes. And it's not even a powerful arcane spell. The more powerful arcane spells I've seen take upwards of twenty to thirty minutes. And if someone even touches an arcane on the shoulder to get their attention, the spell is over. They have to stay stationary. They can't wave a shield or sword around and continue to cast. *though a shield wall could be produced to save them from disruption while spells would be cast. Yet again, that has nothing to do with heavy or light armor. The spell would still end from the slightest touch. Even from ones own friend's touch would a spell end.*

I'm also not saying that a empath should be given heavy armor. I actually do find that one rediculous. And because of this speed they can potentially do more damage over time.

I guess my point is saying that armor or no. Arcane spells can be powerful, yet they can still be easily stopped if the caster is found during the casting. Most likely melee combat would insue, leaving little room to continue casting.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:56 pm

You can RP out for those 30 minutes how ever you want. You do not have to sit stationarily still in 1 spot. Not exactly.

Ravinal · Post by **Ravinal** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:02 pm

So you can run away from people while casting a giant arcane spell?

Edit: It's news to me that you could even move around. I'd always taken it as empath-like charging.

Edit: It would still be wierd to me if you could actively dodge out of the way or sword swings while casting.

Post by **WayneO42** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:15 pm

I think what Chris means is that you could RP the casting as dancing in a circle or drawing in the dirt, or singing, or whatever. You dont have to be sitting still. You do have to direct your attention to casting though.

Ravinal · Post by **Ravinal** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:25 pm

Which is my point. That concentration. The powerful, yet fragile potential of casting an arcane spell. It's what's made it fair in my mind, that it can be ended rather easy; if not properly planned. Say as, "I'll start casting, you attract the enemies to the field."

I should also say I don't know if the GMs have tested this heavy armor while casting idea. The only possible wrong-ness I could find with it was that if the spell were disrupted, the arcanist could start melee combat and not almost instantly die before they could get their sword out. For, who would want to restart a spell with someone actively swing at them, after a spell has been disrupted.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:03 pm

GM_Chris wrote:I bow to public oppinion and I will test it this event by putting all of my arcane's in full plate.

Which is fine, as long as they follow NORMAL RULES for armor, casting and skills.

The Arcanes need to PHYSICALLY exist while they are casting a spell so they CAN actually be disrupted. I understand that you guys have fewer people, but the rescue battle last game got a lot of complaints on the way that was handled.

They also can't be dancing around all over the field fighting people while they are casting spells. As far as I know, it doesn't work that way, it requires your attention.

Also, heavy armor requires a fairly obvious phys-rep that will probably restrict your movements somewhat, making it hard for you to move or get out of the way.

Unless you are playing a character in the exact same situation as a player, you aren't play testing correctly. You've already made up your mind.

I am sympathetic to the plight of "not enough NPCs" and "Not enough spell-packets" but this wasn't a solution, it felt cheap and confusing.

None of this: "Well they are actually over here, good luck getting to them though...you can't actually get to them so they don't need to be phys-repped standing where they are."

And Roi's point is well written: Armor doesn't matter when most spells take an extended time to cast and can be disrupted by an aggressive action, armor or not.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:30 pm

Fell a few things.

Why do you think we are going to cheat? It actually really bothers me.

You know we will not have armor physreps for even our warriors..should we come in nakked?

You know we could possibly have only 4 NPC's versus your 40 to 60. Should we do a mandatory recruit of the PC base? Other games do that, maybe we should start.

Should I change the battle so that yes I have 4 people so I will have an epic battle with 4 people. This means that the elves summoned HUGE:Y powerful people that are nearly immune to all things swingig 10 crusH? I am seriously at a loss. I do not understand what I am suppsoe to do. We try and give you excitment and fairness. We frankly do a good job and I get my balls kicked in constantly on this form because if it is uttered from my mouth somehow it is evil. How do I know this? Because other GM's make posts for me and those posts are celebrated. I post other GN stuff sometimes and it is negative. EVERYTHING I somehow post is negative?

How often do i play a PC where I run a killing blow? OH wait last event we had a plot written where you needed dispell in order to break the curse on a statue. Hmm no one with dispell magic came to play so I give out a magic item with dispell magic incase someone runs into the trap. I constantly am being more than fair all of the time yet I continue to be brow beaten on this forum and get little comments that somehow I am constantly going to cheat you.

Further more I get a complaint about a sage from 2 people. Please 2 out of 60 and I consider it a good enough idea to push it through with the other GM's and then stay up late for the last week writting lore for it. I spend 300 of my own money to get good weapon physreps so you the player can have a better expierence. I rent a larger car to transport all this at further expense.

I talk alot of talk about how I am going to kill everyone yet have NEVER done it. I have always ruled on the field when the PC's were about to die to make some criticle mistake to allow you to recover. Oh wait that was critized too. This even we came up with stuff WAY ahead of time. You guys are actually not in that bad of shape. it hink you will be surprised yet you want me to physrep my armor.

I AM NOT TRYING TO SCREW YOU! I bowed down to perhaps it is not bad to wear armor. I willplay test the best I can wit the people I can. Ofcoruse they will not charge spells whiel fighting.

Grumble!

Tullus · Post by **Tullus** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:46 pm

Hehe, I never said anything to you about cheating. My, "So you can run away while casting a giant arcane spell." was in jest. I , nor do I think Heidi, feel as though your going to cheat. I feel she was mentioning what she thinks went wrong last event. I only tried to state what I feel about the armor situation. So I'm going to say something I've rarely said in my life.

Chill. It's not that critical.

As has been said, this is written word. People will sometimes misunderstand the true intentions behind wording. You, Chris, are misunderstood a lot. I've talked to you a lot in person and know your not out to get us. I know you want to make it epic and fun. And I know you're not going to cheat. All of this about misunderstandings has actually been discussed in another thread a few days ago. So please....from the bottom of my heart.

Chill.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:26 pm

Arcane is already extremely overpowered. It is the ONLY discipline (that I am aware of) that can one shot instantly kill another PC without any type of resist. This in my mind is already broken to the point that it needs to be toned down. And you want to let them wear heavy armor so they can whip our asses more after killing off most of us? That's nuts...

The elven army could walk into town with 10-12 arcanes and probably wipe us out with little to no losses.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:38 pm

For the record I am not all that upset just a tad grumpy.

Understand. I take a post Mike writes and posts it and it is misunderstood. Mike takes a post I write and it is perfectly understood. I laughed about it, but to say my written word is missunderstood yet I am only posting another GM's words makes it sound to me a tad more personal.

To calrify the last event.

In a skirmish if a person knocks out an NPC we call them dead. In a large battle (picture 300) you could knock a person out and all that is going to happen is the next guy is going to step into the hole. That is why we did not allow knockout skills or fear or taunt. As for not being able to attack the arcanes. Well they were surrounded by 30 people in a shield circle. Sure you could have gotten to them after you got through the guys attacking you, but you did not.

Sooo in this comming event I really don't want to "simulate" so we will see what we have, we will recruit, and if need be we will simulate a little, but hopefully just a little.

As I said. You guys are looking pretty good against the elf threat all things considerd. I think you have a chance, but unlike other events like this we wil not back off if you start to loose. We are playing this one by the numbers.

gingerswenson · Post by **gingerswenson** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:38 pm

Ok ok ok ok.... So as a new person (to all things larp) Do I understand things right? Is, has and will always be ok for me to have light armor right? If its not that ok.... But I have spent the last 3 weeks working on a phsrep for my light armor. (which by the way if I take of my boobs will fall out. I am working on some ideas because it may be to cold for cleavage) Just checking...