!!New!! Skills relating to death and Resurection

[Amagus]

I’ve never been in a situation where someone couldn’t be saved because it was mechanically impossible. It’s always been because we didn’t have enough surgeons to help out or potions to augment the surgery at the time. That makes for better role play then ‘he’s beyond the cap’. Far easier when answering why the patient couldn’t be saved with ‘lack of resources’ than stammering to come up with an RP reason to explain mechanical limitations. The game just flows better that way.

When a character is smashed down to –100, its nice to know it’s theoretically possible to save him, but it’s NEVER been realistically possible. I believe Dallid performed a mercy killing or two when encountering extremely injured characters. Game mechanics all ready prevent the healing of massive damage without setting a hard cap, and that's an awesome thing.

I doubt anyone damaged to that level will ever be saved, but would LOVE to watch such a save happen. It’d be a truly epic effort.

[Donovan Thynedar]

I know it's an impressive expediture of people and potions, but knowing that people can be brought back from 100+ points in negatives seems like more than enough. I'm glad the rules take the extremes of a situation into account (and the GM's deserve credit for their foresight), but I don't think we'll be seeing anyone pulled back from negative 100 any time soon.

I've only seen a few Lvl 4 healing potions made IG, and the chances of having all of the necessary people and components in place while the victim draws all nine white chips out of the bag are very, very small. Even in a near perfect scenario, I think we're realistically looking at something more like:

1) First Aid the person for 2 and administer potions for an additional 8
(Per the current rule set, first aid can only be used once per patient)
2) Apply turnicate to extend Bleed to death by a minute
3) Transfussion or Transferance (we'll give them the better of the two) 6 LP
4) Healer Stabalizes
5) Transferance 1 per 20 sec for 3 minutes= 9
6) Do surgery for 10
7) DO additional surgery for 5 and administer potions for an additional 20 (I picked 5 because after that the chances are getting sphincter-tighteningly bad. )
Transferance for 5 minutes at 3/minute= 15

For a total of 75 life points. This presumes that there are 7 Lvl 3 cures on hand, two healers, an empath, numerous willing "meat puppets", and 20 some odd uninterrupted minutes in which to work. It also means that someone was able to get the fallen body away from whatever took it to negative 75. In my experience this does not happen often. I won't say that you're more likely to find a Yeti in the outhouse, but the numbers are close.

The most common scenario has a single healer performing surgery just a few hundred feet from combat. That healer would be lucky to have two Lvl 3 cures and an assortment of Lvl 1 and 2 cures on hand. Forget healing clamps and outside assistance, because most likely the other healers (if there are any) are busy patching up other folks in grave condition. It also seems Empaths have two states: blowing stuff up and lying on the ground with a sucking chest wound. This means they're not likely to participate in any surgical endeavors unless they're on the receiving end. So, with that, things start to look more like.

1) First Aid the person for 2 and administer potions for an additional 7
(One Lvl 3, one Lvl 2)
2) Do surgery for 10
3) Do additional surgery for 5 and administer potions for an additional 12 (Two more Lvl 2 and three Lvl 1 cures)

For 36 points. 19 of which are coming from an expendable resource. Personally, I'd call that fair. It's good to know that a season's worth of organization and alchemy could save you if you were reduced to -125, but I think that having a fair shot at -25 is more important. The system allows for that, so I'd say it's good.

[Atrum Draconus]

11 Heal 4 potions? If that happens I'm personally going to go around and poll everyone that contributed healing potions to it. Some of us had some 4th level potions stock piled for 3 years that had to be switched to new potions so I didn't go around bitch slapping people when 7 fortify the deads showed up that atleast 1 of the 4th level alchemists in the game didn't contribute any to but if 11 Heal 4 potions mysteriously materialize I'm sure as hell gonna find out OOG where they came from. The game has rules for a reason and if people abuse the rules then we'll all suffer because the GM's won't trust us and the rules will reflect that. I like this game the way it is where for a cost you can do some pretty neat stuff. If you think I'm just talking out of the side of my mouth then you don't know me very well. I'm not a GM so I don't have to be PC, if I think you're cheating with alchemy I'm sure as hell gonna confront you on it and we're gonna sit down and calculate every 4th level potion that I know that you've used or given away and if I find that you are cheating noone in the game will not have that information.

Sorry to be a dick but sometimes someone needs to be.

[Onimaster]

Lol, Erik's like a rules abuse Batman. Big, black, ingenuitive, and a total jerk for all the right reasons. Does that make Jim or Colin Robin?

[WayneO42]

Ok, the more I look back at it, the more I agree with Doug. There is no reason to have the 9 chip draw cap. If you want to burn the time and resources to heal 400 LP, more power to you. It would be easier and less costly to res them but hey, to each their own.

[Lambic]

I gotta admit that Erik has a point. But its of topic.

I think it is cool that if we have the resources we can bring people back from waaaay down in the negatives.

[Nelkie]

I support what Erik is saying. I ask the same question when people are pulling powerful potions out of thin air on a contuinious bases. I have pretty good pulse on what should be able to be done with the given alchemist, craftsman, resources, etc in game and I start questioning when there is a major influx and it will be brought to the NPC's attention. I know Erik and I fight tooth and nail to get what we have and follow the rules to the letter, and it is very fustrating and makes me angery when people side step the rules.

[dier_cire]

Lol, Erik's like a rules abuse Batman. Big, black, ingenuitive, and a total jerk for all the right reasons. Does that make Jim or Colin Robin?

WTF does that make me? Can I be Mr. Freeze? (<3 da ahnold, lol)

[Onimaster]

Wildebeest from Teen Titans... LOL

[Eli]

Let me just start by saying WOW. After reading the last two pages, I have decided to leave the points to you mathletes. All this brining a person back from negative 100 to 400 only applies to a living person right? You’re all discussing the Surgery Skill only right?

If so, then on to my real questions! Because Nat and my main character are a key part of the resurrection process my questions are NOT about surgery, but are about resurrection.

Let me be sure I understand the changes so far I have a few questions please use the quote thing to answer so I don’t get more confused (thx soco):


1. Spell Gather Essence is now an Empath ability.

2. Can you still do the “gather essence” and have the living victim/sacrifice to put the essence of the person you want back into that body. I.e. kill a living person during the use of Empath skill (formerly casting of spell) instead of having the body you wish to resurrect? See Spell: Gather Essence: “vessel must be functioning, as in it must be their person’s own body or another body. The body that is chosen must be empty and again functional.” – this was explained to me to mean that the arcane could have a living person lying there instead of the body of the deceased that they wanted to gather. They would then cast the spell and in completion kill the person lying there, use the “Fortify the Dead” potion and put the essence of the dead person they wanted to be raised into the “others” body, which could then be resurrected by an empath (now healer). So my question is, can an Empath do this now like an arcane could before, or is the sacrifice ability simply gone?

3. Do the arcanes get these new spells: Call Essence and Call to the Void?


I still have a few more questions, but since this is a major part of my character, I want to make sure I get this right. I have an example / clarifications I need to help me understand changes:

Random PC Bog dies, gets dragged back to town. 35 minutes pass before anyone can start working on him.

Actions required to resurrect:
1. Healer spends 5 min to prepare body.
2. Empath performs Gather Essence (use to be arcane spell now it is skill for empath). This takes 15 minutes to perform.
3. *If you want before Empath starts work, there is an option but not requirement to have:
a. Arcane cast:
i. Call essence – reduces chips required by one to be drawn, not below 2.
ii. Cry to the Void – add on spell to previous- reduces chips required to be drawn by 1 not to be below 2.
b. Alchemist potions given:
i. Fortify the dead – reduces the number of chips required to be drawn by one. (Does this also require no reduction below 2 chips?) **Note this is component to some arcane rituals? Which? Gather essence spell is gone from game, and is now an empath skill. This is the only spell I have found that requires this potion to be used.
ii. Mend the (race) body – reduces the chip draw by one, race specific. (Does this also require no reduction below 2 chips?)
4. Next Healer performs resurrection as per Empath Skill in current rule book:
a. Change: now instead of being at –20 life upon being raised, person is at 0
b. Change: now only one person may be used to transfer life points into the body of the newly raised by the Empath; however there is no practical purpose of this being done in the game because once finished the “donor” of the life is reduced to –10 life. This makes NO sense to me? Donor looses life at 3-1 while being transferred, and then is requested to –10 as well? Why would people do this, since it would only take a healer 4 minutes to heal the newly raised person to full life points, as they are raised at 0 now? This was used in the past to save people from the –20 life points as of being resurrected, but now they are at 0. Why the restriction and why the –10 at the end?
c. Change: newly raised is now under effects of starvation for one hr.
i. There is a mention that using the empath ability to transfer life into the body of the newly raises, mentioned in (b) above, would get rid of this restriction, but I do not see any rule on how that would work. Please clarify.

5. Further why bother with all that surgery stuff. If a person is at –200 it would be cheaper and easier to let them die, wait a minute, and use prepare the dead and resurrection. Further, it would bring them to 0 with only 2 chips being drawn. Thus saving time, energy and resources.
6. Does the resurrection skill still take 1 hour? If so, then it is only 5 minutes to prepare body, 1 hr to preform resurrection and 4 minutes to bring person back to full life Verses all those potions and numerouse healers and numerous empaths and doners... and bla.

[WayneO42]

1. Spell Gather Essence is now an Empath ability.

Incorrect. The master Empath Resurrect skill is now Gather Essence. We just borrowed the name from the spell because it fits better.

2. Can you still do the “gather essence” and have the living victim/sacrifice to put the essence of the person you want back into that body. I.e. kill a living person during the use of Empath skill (formerly casting of spell) instead of having the body you wish to resurrect? See Spell: Gather Essence: “vessel must be functioning, as in it must be their person’s own body or another body. The body that is chosen must be empty and again functional.” – this was explained to me to mean that the arcane could have a living person lying there instead of the body of the deceased that they wanted to gather. They would then cast the spell and in completion kill the person lying there, use the “Fortify the Dead” potion and put the essence of the dead person they wanted to be raised into the “others” body, which could then be resurrected by an empath (now healer). So my question is, can an Empath do this now like an arcane could before, or is the sacrifice ability simply gone?

Its gone. See answer one. The empath's role in the process is the same as it was before it just is shorter and with a different name. There is no more "Re-incarnation". You have to use the correct body.

3. Do the arcanes get these new spells: Call Essence and Call to the Void?

Yes. They replace the current spells that deal with reserection

Actions required to resurrect:
1. Healer spends 5 min to prepare body.

Correct

2. Empath performs Gather Essence (use to be arcane spell now it is skill for empath). This takes 15 minutes to perform.

This use to be the reserect skill not the spell. It just shares a name with the OLD spell. Other than that, correct.

3. *If you want before Empath starts work, there is an option but not requirement to have:
a. Arcane cast:
i. Call essence – reduces chips required by one to be drawn, not below 2.
ii. Cry to the Void – add on spell to previous- reduces chips required to be drawn by 1 not to be below 2.

Almost correct. The Mend body skill states: After all steps of the resurrection are complete, the patient must draw two chips plus one chip per hour the character has been dead. The chip draw can never be lowered below one.

b. Alchemist potions given:
i. Fortify the dead – reduces the number of chips required to be drawn by one. (Does this also require no reduction below 2 chips?) **Note this is component to some arcane rituals? Which? Gather essence spell is gone from game, and is now an empath skill. This is the only spell I have found that requires this potion to be used.

See above. The chip count can be reduced to 1. The potion is a component in a ritual, just not one that has been introduced into game yet.

ii. Mend the (race) body – reduces the chip draw by one, race specific. (Does this also require no reduction below 2 chips?)

See above

4. Next Healer performs resurrection as per Empath Skill in current rule book:

Incorrect. The reserection skill in the book now is changed to Gather Essence skill

a. Change: now instead of being at –20 life upon being raised, person is at 0

Correct but, as you said in 4c they are under the effects of starving. This is where the "Donor" part of the skill comes in. The empath can suck some life out of a donor and drop them to -10. This allows the empath to raise the target from dead to 0 and not be under the effects of starving.

b. Change: now only one person may be used to transfer life points into the body of the newly raised by the Empath; however there is no practical purpose of this being done in the game because once finished the “donor” of the life is reduced to –10 life. This makes NO sense to me?

It doesnt make sense to me either. I think you are thinking that the old skills are staying in which they aren't. Forget all about the old Reserection skills and spells the empath and arcane used to have. It is no more.

Also of note, the chip draw at the end from the healer's bag is not just a representation of the healer's work but a representation of failure for the overall process. It was done this way so we didnt have to start requiring empaths to carry a chip bag. The healer's major part is really done after his first five minutes of mending the body. The rest of the time he is just there stabalizing the body while the empath works.

[Eli]

NEVER MIND I figured it out. this part anyway.

[Eli]

Ok, so the only change to Empath then is: it is now 15 minutes and must hvae a healer there the whole time and the name is changed from resurrection to gather essence.


So. how do we bring someone back who has been dead longer than the 30 minutes as per the former spell called gather essence? Is that the Mend body skill?

[Eli]

I think I get that now.

Healer takes 5 minutes to prepare body. Then remains with it the WHOLE time.

This is where a arcane can then cast his two spells if wanted to reduce the cost of drawing or alch can produce potions to reduce.

Empath uses Gather Essence which takes 15 min now instead of an hr and was formly called Resurrect.

Dead draws 2 chips + one per hr dead past first + additional chips as needed. (reducable to 1 via potions and magic).

Got it. Healer now replaces the old Spell Gather Essence which is GONE. (even thought the empath skill has this name, they are not the same) and their skill is the mend body one.

So there is nothing called Resurrection in the game at all anymore.


I think I got that part.

What about the letting person die question. (I edited my original post like 10 times as I thought more about the changes).

[GM_Chris]

BTW why did we decide neg 10 for the donor vrs say neg 15.

with the donor all you are doing to increasing the time to raise a person to remove starving. No risk