FinalHavenLarp.com

I will answer as best I can -

1. If you find a new holding, does this create a new territory or is it attached to another territory? - This actually depends. Sometimes it can be attached to an existing Territory, and sometimes it is not. Right now I would likely say any Holding found at FH will be in essence it's own Holding, you will not likely see a single Territory with multiple Holdings, but I cannot say for sure what the future holds or what the Players will look for.

2. Have you guys thought about how useless this makes Food? I mean...I don't even really need it for commodities as it stands. It's 4th option on everything. Maybe switch it so it is in the Resource 2 slot for something. Rarified Herbs would be best as you just make healing items with those for the most part. - We will be looking at all the resources, but really unless you wish to check out Wealthy, or make Commodities, Buildings or break down Mystic there is not a large demand any further for any resource. Food and Cloth will likely be the lowest demand currently. I have some ideas on way to generate interest in these Resources but there are other higher priority items ahead of those ideas.

3. Changes to Utilize Resource? I guess if it's staying I could just upgrade to wealthy on food but that's kinda weird. - As of yet I see no reason to change "Utilize Resource". As of now people check out Wealthy with it all the time, and now they get it at "Common" for free. It still does what it was meant to do.

Please feel free to keep the questions rolling in, and I will answer them to the best of my ability.

what is the point of the political/eco system?

I mean strip the system away, get away from how broken/perfect the system is/was.

what is the point of it? why is it here? what are we supposed to accomplish through it?

and be prepared, because I know there is going to be a very deep sugar coated response to this question. I am going to tear the response apart

if its to foster RP between NPCs its failing pretty hard, we very rarely deal with them and mostly number crunch, this can be done better ways not involving a system.
if its to grant the PC's resources. that is not needed as much now with everyone being common. and such a role would have always been better off as rewards from quests, that involve both RP and interaction with the NPC's. this is obviously better then a system.
if its to grow the world on a level like a sims game, then I could see the system being slightly required. but more as something to help us keep track of where we need to go in game to help develop the world, and track our progress.

it should NOT be the main source to pump out resources and wealth, I cannot stress how stupid this is.

If it's unbalanced for Brian to use his superior wit and guile to achieve an economic benefit without spending points, is it also unbalanced for you to use your superior agility and speed to achieve a strategic benefit without having to spend points?

what...wait...when did i pick that stuff up?!?! Damit I never get the Memos!!!

2) everyone going to one person. the reason this happens is not because one person is clever. its usually because nobody else wants to deal with it. recent changes should prove that. I know because I have been very close to those people that have been the one person and even they did not want to deal with it but felt obligated to.

Then they could have ...at anytime...given the power and control to someone else...did they?
Just like in real life the person in power CNAN hate doin the book keeping, and pass off those duties to a senechal/advisor/minister of the interior. Sounds alot like what Dani did no?

3) I completely understand your point Taki. but combat is as balanced and fair as the rules can make it. and I fully agree that mobility is a key point in combat (I thought resist root/slick was one of the best skills in the game and a lot of people ignored it :p) but never the less we do have skills in game that balance combat, skills I still have to take if I want to be effective.

Seems there are skills to be effective at the economic system too, so that they will make someon more effective at its use.

I do disagree with your examples though. as most of that is live action rather then exploiting a massive system that has no balance for massive benefits, rather then being the first to notice an enemy or someone that's quiet.

The system is rather small, it only gains mass when a player has ammased numerous holdings. Not much different than fighting a PC with a high number of levels or skill points.

(we do have "spot" though btw, and "scout")

Both of which are designed so the PC can detect things not physically represented in the real world, and therefore not visable to the player...so no comparison.

4) I know about how many people take part in this system, and even amongst that number about half don't like it or want to, but they have to

.

NO ONE ...HAS to. Dani is the perfect example, she just had her PC find someone else to do it. Its good to be da king...or queen in this case.

but to have one balanced around that idea is NOT balanced and NOT fair to the rest of the players, simple as that.

I cant think of anyone else I would consider better to make it balaned than those three, and they are NOY the only ones that love a detailed economic system. Some like it, but dont dive in because thier PC just wouldnt, its that pesky RP thing again.

we have a system for balancing players against one another, its a character sheet, and character points. any benefit you get out of the eco/political system should be properly balanced against other skills and have cost associated to it accordingly. if you go in game to RP with a farmer and they give you a few extra resources, that fine. but the current incarnation is neither balanced nor fair, and any decent system or game should be.

Unless things have changed that system does have checks and balances, and is trasked through a paper trail like a PC sheet. The balances just do not function like LARP combat PC min/max balnces do.

If Brian can manipulate people to do his bidding he shouldn't need the skill "Manipulate" to make his abilities manifest.

wait wait wait....lets not stretch this into nonsensicle fantasy...Id have to be likable first...

a new player walking into game was DRASTICLY behind an established alchemist.

as they should be...

The current systems is flawed in that it is an open ended system that allows for infinite growth. all while having no cost to the player. this is also justifying the accumulation of wealth and power through role playing with no cost to character cost.

Seems you are just unfamiliar to the costs to the PC that you are not aware of.

it has the means within the system to take other peoples territories and such.

Just like in the real world, which makes it a perfect fit for a PVP active live action ROLE PLAYING game.

so even IF a new player came in, and even IF they wanted to get into the system (two big if's) the established player could take control of any work they had done no problem.

Hardly no problem, but if it happened that new player would just have to RP up he support to take it back...or KILL THE PC that stole it, just like it should be in a PVP active fantasy ROLE PLAYING game.

If people cannot see the problems with this system. . .well I will still bring them up but that's insane.

Might just be that the only problem is the paradib you are looking at it from. Might just be no issue exiests.

Lets look at it from a different angle. Who is having fun with it as currently implemented? Taki was happy. Dani wasn't happy so she differed most of it to Taki, Matt is dissatisfied and Josh just hates it. I'm not feeling it either. Neither was Melissa. Travis utterly destroyed it as did Jared who still has yet to receive his spoils.

Just to clarify...your trying to say its broken because the people I would expect to not like it dont...the people that I would expect to like it do...AND because a few of the ones I would expect to min max and crush it ...did?

Thats like saying that the combat system doesnt work because players who hate combat didnt like it, players that like combat loved it, and when Jackie Chan...Ken Watanabe... and Wesley Snipes showed up to play they crushed it. MUST be broken...

right now its simply a way to mass personal wealth to be used at that persons discretion. be that buying and up keeping magic items, buying potions, buying and up keeping magic items, building structures, buying and up keeping magic items, buying military to further protect and steal other territories, buying and up keeping magic items, helping the community, or finally buying and up keeping magic items.

uhm, thats what it SHOULD be for. Its then up top to the player to decide if the PC would use it like a greedy bastard OR becaose a philanthropist....

I want to see it turned away from personal gain, and be more focused on growing the world. . .I realize there would be no personal gain in that, but still. if that was its original purpose, well its become slightly twisted and needs to be fixed.

See above

it is not necessarily the best way to get and maintain one

.

I am not aware of ANY number crunching t hat will GET you a holding...at all.

what is the point of the political/eco system?
I mean strip the system away, get away from how broken/perfect the system is/was.
what is the point of it? why is it here? what are we supposed to accomplish through it?

Sems to be to bring needed rescources into game in a real(or near real) world fasion for a fantasy setting. Pick away.

if its to foster RP between NPCs its failing pretty hard, we very rarely deal with them and mostly number crunch,

YOU may rarely deal with them...doesnt mean thats common or even typical.

if its to grant the PC's resources. that is not needed as much now with everyone being common.

Not even close to true. Rescources are still needed, just not to prevent strvation.

and such a role would have always been better off as rewards from quests,

and nope again, wouldnt be the same or be even a little realistic.

it should NOT be the main source to pump out resources and wealth, I cannot stress how stupid this is

.

Actually it absolutely should be, since the rescources , that might be found as "loot", have to come from somewhere. Since that is the case, not having a system for PCs to get these same rescources, as you would like your PC to find in the "loot chest" near every "MOB"; in the same way the NPCs do would be unrealistic...and stupid.

Can someone still be Cursed, or otherwise their wealth-level decreased between events?
This seems like a good reason for most folks (at least those fearing they'd be the subject of such "attacks") to at least attempt to check out at Wealthy 1, thus meaning Food and the likes are still fairly important (especially as a trade commodity with NPCs as well.)

Wealthy would have no affect on being Cursed, as you are not actually Starving, just experiencing some of the Starving effects.

But it would protect you against Level 4 Spy - Sabotage, which reduces the Wealth level you checked out at by 1.

I agree with Brian so I need to look at my position again.

I agree with Brian so I need to look at my position again.

Yes, Travis, for the sake of all of us, please do.

fast post whilst the ESO beta finishes downloading (whooooot)

there is to much money in game. with so many over level 50, 100, and some 200 characters all receiving x2, x3, and x4 income and no real money sinks in game. that and the eco/political system never gives you less then you put in, its an investment system with constant positive returns.

and the current system has no means to deal with inflation. despite everyone raking in all this money (I alone get more then enough to upkeep myself +plenty from level alone) skills still only grant a poultry set amount of resources or coin.

btw the only real advantage an established character should hold over a new one, especially in a low number fast advance system like FH, is that characters personal contacts and experience in the world thus far.

Damnit travis not I have to make that long ass post the opposite of itself...bastage!

btw the only real advantage an established character should hold over a new one, especially in a low number fast advance system like FH, is that characters personal contacts and experience in the world thus far.

I cant even grasp how a bright person would make such a statement. a player that has been at the game for 4 events, would frever have an advantage over a brand new one...because...he has had 4 events to get his goodies and contacts ball rolling. thats like 2+ 2 = 4 obvious.
Thet may bothe be at roughly the same combat ability after the newbie gets to level 20, but you were talking about an alchemist initially.
I also think that statement came from the perspective you have suffered from for a while, combat copmbat combat. If only the events had a place to plug in a controller eh?

Kaylan Chargeender wrote: If only the events had a place to plug in a controller eh?

nah, if FH was a digital game I wouldn't play it

plus I like Live action, because like Taki said, I have a distinct advantage most don't have.

besides I have adopted a new approach. let what ever broken system that is going to be put in place happen. then personally exploit the crap out of it and break the game so it has to be fixed. if they don't fix it I get to go mad with power, and if they do fix it then its fixed. win win.

please GM's DO NOT change the system, at all. obviously we all like it the way it is and believe its fine, so I see no need to change ANYTHING. leave it alone. seriously. for reals. I mean it!

besides I have adopted a new approach. let what ever broken system that is going to be put in place happen. then personally exploit the crap out of it and break the game so it has to be fixed. if they don't fix it I get to go mad with power, and if they do fix it then its fixed. win win

Thats exactly how NERO was borified...i mean fixed.

I'll definitely agree with Brian on this one. In my quest to find a good system in which to place myself and my wife I have read over 50 different sets of rules. From systems as complex and mechanics heavy as nero and amtgard to very simple, almost generic things as glass. There are some things I liked about almost every different rule book that I read. There were most certainly things that I didnt like as well. When it comes to rules and mechanics there is almost always going to be a rule or two that you dont like. The best way to deal with those is to either work within the system and provide good ideas to replace them. Whining, complaining, and arguing arent going to fix anything and just push people away. It took alot of work to come up with that system, and even more work to implement it. Think about what you say before you bash someone elses idea. Constructive criticism is okay, but sometimes people go to far and offend those who would otherwise be willing to work with them.

Ok ...thats it...just stop...ri8ght...now. I am sick and tired of people....and Travis...agreeing with me. My ego is BARELy managable as it is...any more agreement and I will essentially become Taki without the cool tan.....


so for the love of all thats holy and good just stop!

I agree with Brian, just stop.

I place a 100 gold bounty on Phils head, payable by Taki.....