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I can get trying to keep the rules similar or the same to be in line with the FH non mantra ...mantra of keeping things simple; but "historically" golems and undead are different and have different strengths and weaknesses so have slightly different uses.

did I understand that golems CAN be made in game currently?

Id also like your crique on these mr Abbadon player, as you likely have some of the best experience with how well these may work if fleshed out with actual rules, and how they compare to current things in both chapters.

Kaylan Chargeender wrote:but "historically" golems and undead are different and have different strengths and weaknesses so have slightly different uses.

It really depends on the strength of the undead/golem in question. Generally the low end, mindless creatures of both groups are fairly weak.

I would like to take it one step further than Travis actually. I think the spell should be role-played any way the caster desires. Maybe you summon creatures of nightmare or small elementals. Maybe you call upon the forces of nature or woodland critters run to aid you. The "what" of the creature doesn't really matter. The stats are provided and that's the big thing. What one wizard conjures would have no advantage over something a different wizard animated.

It really depends on the strength of the undead/golem in question. Generally the low end, mindless creatures of both groups are fairly weak.

I disagree. Even a weak golem like a clay or flesh golem could crush hundreds of zombies or skeletons.

The "what" of the creature doesn't really matter.

I disagree. First, letting a PC RP whatever they want may well go against the grain of the game setting. I could play a mage that summons weak versions of terminators, but that would be outta place and ruin immersion.
Also, it matters IN GAME. Creating undead is a different in game moral issue than making mobile statues or summoning a being of the "good" forces of the ethereal or astral beings.

The stats are provided and that's the big thing.

Problem is, different types of creatures would mean different stats. a Mummy would have different strengths and weaknesses than a iron golem.

What one wizard conjures would have no advantage over something a different wizard animated.

That would depend on the type of thing summoned/created. You raise a mummy, I call a fire elemental...your mummy is in the deep end of the crap pool...

Kaylan Chargeender wrote:I disagree. Even a weak golem like a clay or flesh golem could crush hundreds of zombies or skeletons.

In D&D this is true but there are plenty of settings where this isn't the case. It's also irrelevant since the stats of the creature are provided for you.

Kaylan Chargeender wrote:First, letting a PC RP whatever they want may well go against the grain of the game setting. I could play a mage that summons weak versions of terminators, but that would be outta place and riuin immersion.

Then I'm sure that person would be asked to stop just as a person playing an empath who role plays their booms as a plasma cannon would. Trying to stop bad role playing be limiting role playing opportunities is ridiculous and unnecessary. People should know what genre Final Haven is and role play accordingly.

Kaylan Chargeender wrote:Also, it matters IN GAME. creating undead is a different in game moral issue than making mobile statues or summoning a being of the "good" forces of the ethereal or astral beings.

This is true! To some people there is a huge moral difference but to others it's no big deal. It's also one of the reasons I want to allow verity. Right now you only have the option if making undead. Many people over look this right now because it's the only option. If a wizard is given a choice though and still chooses to summon undead, well then, that's a real statement. The same could be said for someone who summons beings of good, or nature, or chaos, or ect...

Kaylan Chargeender wrote:Problem is, different types of creatures would mean different stats. a Mummy would have different strengths and weaknesses than a iron golem.

They don't have different stats because the spell doesn't allow them to. It's would be up to the caster to rationalize why their creatures have the stats provided by the spell.

Kaylan Chargeender wrote:That would depend on the type of thing summoned/created. You raise a mummy, I call a fore elemental...your mummy is in the deep end of the crap pool...

This isn't true for two reasons. First is because all the creatures stats are based of the spell. The second is because the Final Haven system isn't built that way.

If I were going to change the spell I would remove the restriction of night time from the spell, remove the corpse component, add the ability to describe what you're summoning, and add disenchant to the list of calls that effects the summon.

you keep talking about a single spell. The list i crafted has seperate spells for undead(from the FH list) and a different one for Golems. I didnt even include summoning type spells. So I havent a clue why you keep saying the stats would be the same, because they woud not.

lets worry about that topic later and focus on the spellls in this list.

So sorry, I was commenting on Travis' idea for Animate Dead, the current spell, not in relation to this list. My bad, yes yes, let's get back to the topic. Again, I'm sorry.

ah, I was confuzzeled. no apology needed. I thought I had missed some post, and even re read them twice.

I like variety in games, the ability to do more than just fight, so that is what I commented on most. The rest is just a few suggestions. And I thought Frenzy should be re-named.

Basic
3) Message – Like versatility and uniqueness
4) Circle of Power – Like versatility and uniqueness; “falls unconscious” needs clarification
9) Pins and Needles – Like uniqueness
10) Magic Missile – Like having multiple options
11) Essence Bolt – Too similar to existing skill
14) Create Beacon – Like versatility and uniqueness; may be difficult to phys-rep
21) Lesser Ward – Mark should be on both sides
23) Coordinate Forces – Like benefit from working together
25) Conversion Casting – Like uniqueness

Advanced
7) Dragon Aura – Scream Fear? Also, 5 life seems a lot
9) Stunning Wave – Like uniqueness
17) Resist Sleep Rune – Should be Sleep or Knockout instead of “disease”
21) Scepter of Command – Like magic item creation and uniqueness
22) Escape to Beacon – Like uniqueness
24) Reinforce Structure – Mark should be on both sides of the door

Master
6) Frenzy – Suggest “Enrage”
15) Contact Essence – Like Uniqueness
19) Create Dimentional Container – Like magic item creation
20) Create Golem – Like magic item creation
21) Damage Aura – Like Uniqueness
22) Gemstore – Like magic item creation
23) Create Skill Store – Like magic item creation
24) Greater Ward – Mark should be on both sides (or all 4 if structure)
25) Wizards Staff – Like versatility and uniqueness