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I'm not gonna lie, I really like this idea. Some of the potions are very situational and nobody wants to have a skill they can only use once and a while. Or you could even do this...

Alchemist - Savage, Common, Privleged

Level 1: The alchemist may choose any basic potion at the begining of the event that they would like to brew. They start with 2 potions of that kind and may use alchemy labs to brew more later during the event.

Level 2: The alchemist may choose any basic potion at the begining of the event that they would like to brew. They start with 2 potions of that kind and may use alchemy labs to brew more later during the event.

Level 3: The alchemist may choose any advanced potion at the begining of the event that they would like to brew. They start with 1 potion of that kind and may use alchemy labs to brew more later during the event.

Level 4: The alchemist may choose any master potion at the begining of the event that they would like to brew. They start with 1 potion of that kind and may use alchemy labs to brew more later during the event.

This would be a seperate discipline.

But personally I do not feel that it fits the FH system in relation to any other Path.

*takes a very deep breath*


1) Your right, the old arcanist and alchemist and the above suggestion don't. They shouldn't. 2) Why should they? These are archetypes that are all about versatility unlike the other disciplines.

While we all want our characters to be as versatile as possible, the system is really designed for a character to be very good at one thing, and if you need to do something else then you get help.

Then that's exactly what the original arcanist and alchemist were...good at ONE thing....casting ritual type spells or brewing fluids that did funky stuff. They didn't have weapon or armor bonuses, or ranged attacks or sneak attacks, or info gathering powers, or economy influencing traits.
Now I know your going to say, " sure they did that's what the spells/potions did", and that just further supports my point, because their focus was that kind of assisting flexibility. The new rules have nixed that but good.

Yes by having limited selections to potions and spells, you as one character are limited to those, so if you need another potion you go and find a Wizard who has chosen that potion. Thereby giving players a reason to talk to other players, reasons to pick up various potions or spells that may have value in the game.

That was the same in the old system. Not everyone had every spell/potion recipe. The only issue was when the GMs oked a newly researched spell/potion and didn't have a good logistical system of defining its powers, and making sure all the staff was aware of its existence, and ensuring the combos of spells/potions didn't synergize effects. That's not because of the discipline set up that a failure in the marshaling end of the game.

In a game where characters are limited in there selection of skills and abilities by the system, any part of that system that allows flexibility becomes potentially more powerful.

If the effects of the spells and potions are scrutinized and restrained in the same manner that the skills are, that's not an issue. Part of the issue was that the spells and potions had HUGE effects with the real in game material cost to make them hard to fuel. IN every workable ritual spell and alchemy system I have played in other LARPs there are components and power costs that have to be paid that were ignored in the FH system. That's part of why the old spells and potions were an issue

Conceptually, we wanted to mechanically line the alchemist and arcane up with the rest of the game.

Already spoke to this above.

So, even though mechanically the wizard and alchemist is the same we were going to have this kind of different philosophy toward magic items. Some of these magic items would require a certain level of alchemy/arcane in order to use, and they would integrate with the lore in some way for added depth. I do not know if this has been going on or not, but it should have been.

So you chose to hamstring the players who wanted to be mages and alchemists so that they would be the OCCASIONAL go to people for magic items, which are only OCCASIONALLY needed to begin with, and cost resources to use/maintain rather than just making the spells and potions cost said same resources and leaving the disciplines as they were? I don't follow the logic.

This way as you play FH you slowly start to accumulate one of a kind artifacts that set you apart from other characters.

IN a role playing game the ROLE PLAYING and character history is what it suppose to set the PCs apart....not plot toys. That would be World of Warcraft or Everquest mantra.

This would be in line with how alot of movies and lore works

What movies are you watching?

For example, and ancient An Dar comes into the event with alot of different powers. I was actually surprised no one started to ask him about his secrets, though he would not have given any for now.

Likely because the PLAYERS knew he wouldn't and were of the mindset he was just a NPC plot tool for the event. IF he was brought back I assure you he would get swarmed by interviewers like a celebrity in the TMZ workplace.

I would create magic items that were favored by other classes more so than wizards by specifically saying "you must be a master warrior to use this item" in order to give the other paths equal diversity to the wizard/alchemist.

Why do the paths need equal diversity? If your speaking of the wizard path, that is only a side effect of the changes to arcane and alchemist, not a real path. If the changes had not been made its existence would have been pointless and most would still be an empath or sage with arcane and/ or alchemy since that was the most archetypal "wizard" builds. And they worked. If you wanted to fine tune a path to be more wizard like, blend empath and sage a bit and throw in seer like skills, with the arcane discipline or alchemy you would have a winner.

So in the end you should talk about where you want your diversity to come from?

Role playing, just like it should be in a role playing game... i know call me crazy.

Would you like your diversity to come from a book or through exploration and research?

Not sure why it cant be both. I have seen it done before.

Do you feel items found should be weighted toward wizard/alchemist or other classes?

Neither

How does this affect the lore and feel of the world? I should note the reason for the artifacts instead of say a formula, was to stop the inevitability of everyone having every formula in the game. With an item tied to a new formula then you insure it can only be used by 1 person at a time.

1) why? 2) you can do that by making resources needed but scarce. (IE don't hand out tags form MC)

Lastly, in the next version of the book should we go to a skill based system (gurps) or stay a hybrid class system like old school Warhammer?

Neither since you can't effectively model a LARP after a table top system because table top is much easier to police. FH haven has always been closest to D&D any how, with paths equal to the D&D classes and disciplines akin to prestige classes.

All in all it wasn't arcane and alchemist that needed changing...is was the master list of spells and potions that was never properly monitored and policed. Heck it would have been easiest to just have given the arcane and alchemist 10 "points" per rank of discipline, and had every skill or spell have a rank and point cost(say double the spell/potion level) to limit their per event appearance. Then you can have plot based spell/potion effects that can only be done by several arcanists or alchemists, but it wipes them out or seriously depletes them.

*breathes again*

Actually plot based potions and spells still exist.

I never felt hamstrung by the path and I prefere to the disipkibe for ny wizard.

You could as an alchemist too way to much for too few points.

I think the path is the diection to go. But I like some of the ideas in danis suggestion.

Just because we talk about it doesn't mean changes are soon and likekly

Dani and I have talked about this at great length, both oog and during game breaks with other players (and GMs from both chapters).

The balancing act of the "powerful versatility" of being able to choose different potions and spell effects at the beginning of every event is that it has to be done before game-on. Thereby making situationally applicable potions and spells pure guesswork, because you can't react to IG prompts. You just have to get lucky. Sure it's possible to amass every potion available, but only in bits over many events. Hell, I even suggested once that potions brewed in this theoretical system should have a "shelf-life" to prohibit that very thing.

The guess work involved in brewing potions/spells vs. the versatility would also be meant to be the balance of having a master level skill that can never be used more than three times an event, two of those times requiring in-game money, and none of those potions last longer than a scene, which might end up being 45 seconds.

Have a scene late Saturday that Time Stop would help with hugely? Hope someone lucked out and decided to take it for the event, or too bad. Low on Healing potions 1/4 of the way into the event? Too bad, nobody choose to brew those, so get more tactical.

The only issue was when the GMs oked a newly researched spell/potion and didn't have a good logistical system of defining its powers, and making sure all the staff was aware of its existence, and ensuring the combos of spells/potions didn't synergize effects. That's not because of the discipline set up that a failure in the marshaling end of the game.

See, I think that, too. We should have kept the old system of potions and spells (and the fact that they were separate Disciplines and not a path) and apply the new "official" edited and approved spell/potion list. I thought that back then, too. Before effects gave too much versatility the ability front, when taking into account those potions/spells that replicated actual mechanical abilities from the rulebook.


On the other hand, magic items (while not really being on-topic at all for the specific purposes of this particular thread) being handed out created a feel of "Haves and Have-Nots" with lots of people.

I'm with Kiel, magic items should be neat perks and trinkets that might not even have an upkeep at all (or at most very little), tempered by the fact that they might give the use of a skill the character doesn't have, but only have 1-3 charges for a single weekend, and with any of the restrictions that skill would have for any other player.

But all that is not on-topic for this thread.