An idea on armor coverage on arms/legs

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:24 pm

I here you. It's great having another RL armor smith. You probly having been doing longer than I, I only started with leather about 1 1/2 ago and find it fun and relaxing. it allows me to use my creative side for something fun. Home repairs just don't do it for me.

For this game I have created counrless costumes, weapons, a chain mail shirt, a catapolt, a 4 man cargo container, and now leather armor. I love to craft and i love crafting in leather. I realy like your legs with the rings in it, they look great. I personaly would call them heavy but will give my break down on your armor once I see the pic tonight.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:02 pm

I guess I'm just not understanding why there needs to be a change? Put examples in an FAQ and let armor stay the same for the first off season yet. Put a sentence in the armor rules that states that each chapter can have their own interpretation of category. Have an armor person that looks over the armor and verifies coverage and assigns category.

I don't really understand why armor is still such a big deal. There is no perfect system for armor in a LARP, pick one, go with it, and tell the people that complain to STFU and deal.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:15 pm

Erik, I am going with it. This is GM side stuff not player side stuff that I am talking about.

I wanted to get rid of the idea of fake armor, but I figured i am out of time on that.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:38 pm

I don't really understand why armor is still such a big deal. There is no perfect system for armor in a LARP, pick one, go with it, and tell the people that complain to STFU and deal.

*Shrugs*

I'm not whining, I just thought it could be a simplified way of classifying leg and arm armor, nothing more or less. I'm not trying to just help myself out- personally I can either make or get pretty much any kind of armor I need to fit into a specific category, but some aren't as fortunate.

I figured that seeing as most of the arm and leg armor I have seen has been limited to bracers and greaves respectively, and it hasn't seemed to hurt the game, I figured it might be simple to go ahead and classify it as such so new players and players that lack money and time could play the same game with less investments. Kind of an addition to the dropping of the 'fake' armor classification.

I didn't want to stir the pot or anything, just offer a suggestion. Other than Doug's platemail, I really don't think I have seen a single example of hip-to-ankle leg armor that wasn't either light armor or possibly a set of pants being used as fake medium.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:55 pm

The issue is we keep trying to right rules like 75% coverage.

Well then 1 GM says sorry that is really more like 60% coverage and the other says 75% because we have no reference for any of this stuff. We have no FAQ.

Our rules for armor are pretty simple and open to be expanded.

For example, the armor shown in this thread would not get arms or legs according to the rules, but I could see giving 2 of the 3 catagories, but I need people to give me input. All I keep hearing is more and more discussion. This is why I want to remvoe these forums so bad because this discussion is not helping me in anyways get people the armor they diserve.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:13 pm

Ok, sound great to me. Show me pic, and I'll give you my point of view.

Here is what I consider my armor (General maximus)
Full arms and legs, full chest (it is questionable becsause the stomac and mid back is not covered, but everything else covered)

In the past I would consider it real medium and fake heavy.

I would like to keep heavy leather armor in the heavy armor catergory becasue it is the easist to make, the most inexpensive of all the armors, and looks great!

I don't truely don't want to see having to wear full metal suites to be considered heavy armor, I just think it is to much to ask for the player base. I would like to keep at least this aveune open to them.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:20 pm

CJ I certainly wasn't trying to single you out or say you were whining in any way. You're voivcing a concern and I understand that. It's just that it seems like every year there's a new improved better way to do either armor or helmets(shudder).

Chris I thought the only difference in "fake" and "real" was that you didn't have to take real off to repair it. Didn't the differences in soak go away a couple years ago? If so then why does it really matter if there is a fake class still? The reason Brett aka Voralen got real heavy for his "fake" armor is because it's still cumbersome, takes awhile to take off and put back on and is as resrtictive as plate. So my STFU was really meant for people that complain that they have to take their armor off to get it fixed, solution, make better looking fakey stuff or buy something cheap that will suffice. I think I paid about $60 for my chaps and the coat I wear for Atrum. Gives me full coverage, looks decent and with even a modicum(which I don't even have that) of sewing skill it could actually be really friggin sweet. Mine could be "real" light, but I take it off to get if fixed cause it's a couple buttons, a zipper and a strap.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:28 pm

I want to remove "fake" because it means we have an added rule for no reason. Why not just give all the "fake" armor "real" status and simply say no to POS armor which we should have been doing all along.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:48 pm

So the brand new LARPer that shows up with some armor they spent a bunch of time and effort on is treated like Jerry and Elaine at the soup nazi's place? NO SOAK FOR YOU!!! COME BACK 1 YEAR!!!

Not exactly how I'd handle it considering new players are the lifeline of a LARP.

The fake category certainly serves a purpose, even if you really want everyone to wear something that looks better. Either their, embarassment at having crappy cardboard, some subtle urgings from other players and staff, or the fact that they have to take their armor off all the time, causing huge delays in their getting it fixed will cause them to switch over. If none of those things work, I doubt they're going to last long at LARP, or atleast this one anywizzy.

I've heard people talk smack about pop can top chain, but it's free and can take as long, with more imagination to construct as normal chain, sounds as real as aluminum chain and done well can look as good as chain.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:58 pm

Erik I rather give a new person all the armor poitns they want for a few events so they had time to make what every armor they can. This is not a rich vs poor argument. This is a POS vs look good argument. There is no reason that I should be looking at somthing that is obviously stupid. I do not even know if anyone that plays our game is wearing anything I consider stupid. I thought I needed to say that incase people are reading into my comments.

People who wear costumes that are detramental to the look of the game, and NPC's are probably most to blame, is a reason why we have a hard time retaining some people. It is definitly becomming a reason for retaining me.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:49 pm

I looked at the both pitcures and here is what I say

arms - full arms medium to heavy depends on the chains ring size
legs - legs would be medium do to lack of coverage. I think they need to be covered more to get a full rating. I would say with more covering I would give heavy becasue of the metal ring on leather. It is hard to judge with out seeing the material.
chest - full chest medium to heavy depends on the chian ring size
helmet - The helmet in the first pic would be med real (covers neck and head), not sure if that is a helmet or not in sec pic

Chris, thank you for clarifying. I know meaning can be taken the wrong way on the boards.

What do you think of the idea for the different categories
light - flexible material
med - semi-flexible
heavy - ridiged material

The main thing is the armor must be in period or close to period.

Smitty19 · Post by **Smitty19** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:50 pm

ok as promised, he is the departed Voralen

Post by **GM_Chris** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:09 pm

I would consider that real full plate. It looks good. Looks like it could be fantasy.

No reason to say it is fake.

How much did that cost you.

Smitty19 · Post by **Smitty19** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:44 pm

The armor was 150, the greaves were 60,

30 for the bracers, and 150 for the helmet, but that was also over 2 years as well...but a total of 390.00 which now looking at it, did cost quite a bit...hence why im not gonna play anything that requires armor for quite some time...

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:52 pm

I looked at the both pitcures and here is what I say

arms - full arms medium to heavy depends on the chains ring size
legs - legs would be medium do to lack of coverage. I think they need to be covered more to get a full rating. I would say with more covering I would give heavy becasue of the metal ring on leather. It is hard to judge with out seeing the material.
chest - full chest medium to heavy depends on the chian ring size
helmet - The helmet in the first pic would be med real (covers neck and head), not sure if that is a helmet or not in sec pic

The first picture was considered by myself to be a full suit of Medium armor (I'm a Rogue). The thing that prompted me to suggest counting just greaves w/ thighs and bracers as full leg/arm armor respectively is that most of the player base assured me, as a new player, that what I wore qualified as such. It would seem to me then that it's what the players widely believe, so it would almost seem easier to just qualify arms/legs as such to make things easier.

As an aside, I consider the chain heavy when on it's own, medium if under the leather (when/if that's what I need to get full arms). In the pic, the articulated pauldron is entirely for show- I personally like the cool D&D art style of asymetrical armor.

not sure if that is a helmet or not in sec pic

Evidently not, anymore. With the new helmet rules, a cloth tricorner hat can be fake armor, but not a leather bandanna.