Reflection's

[Zaire]

No one can win in a LARP.

But Vince did do a good job of making people lose.

From a new perspective and someone who only saw the end I thought it was something that every player (whether you lived or died) should be proud of having taken place in.

I was involved with KANAR from 1998 to 2006 and saw dozens of players try to be "evil" and none of them succeeded. Because they wanted to brag about their plans. And it was personal.

I think that Vince didn't make any of it personal. He was able to seperate Corbyn from Vince and that is always a good thing.

[dier_cire]

He was able to seperate Corbyn from Vince and that is always a good thing.

You obviously haven't met Vince. He's curently ttaking over Michigan as we speak. I personally welcome Vincelvania.

[Zaire]

So a funny thing.

I attended the event before the "betrayal" with my friend Scott. We were kind of thrown into the mix without much idea of what was going on.

Obviously new players tend to get treated as outsiders and I felt a bit of that. But I've been Larping for over a decade so had no problem being there. I some people were surprised by the "noob".

Anyway we were sitting in the Inn and a bunch of people came in and immediately went in to talk with Donovan, seems that happened a lot.

My friend Scott turns to me and makes a comment about the pointy-eared guy with wings, who we later find out is Corbyn, a person trusted by a great deal of people. What did Scott say?

"I don't trust him. Something seems "off" about him."

Of course I didn't listen and even if so, who would have taken the warning or "gut-feeling" of a "noob".

I learned to trust Scott. If he says it ain't right, I'm gutting it.

[General Maximus]

I think we all learned not to trust elves with wings!! or just elves!

[Zaire]

Regardless I just want to say

"Well played Vince. Well played."


As a side...

I've got to say that the overall acceptance's of the outcome was a surprise for me. A pleasant one though.

I haven't read thousands of posts from people upset with the outcome. All in all that shows a level of maturity not found in such numbers at KANAR.

I applaud your whole organization.

It's okay to blame Corbyn, but everyone should thank Vince. His actions left an incredible possibility of futures for Final Haven.

[GM-Phil]

Well all I can say to this is when I heard what happened at the event, I had two immediate thoughts.. 1. Dang Vince you rule..

and 2. Oh, for once I wish Ian had not died.. It would have been an amazing role-playing moment to be there with him.. As I had been warning Donovan to be careful of Corbyn, mostly once the Order had been established.. now mind you I had NO idea how far he was going to go, I just knew Donovan's faith in him was misplaced and tried at any time I could to make Donovan see it, to not trust Corbyn so Implicitly.. but alas some silly Lizardmen had to go and off me.. And I bet Corbyn paid them off too..(J/K)..

Well done Vince.. well done.

[Peace420]

Depends on what the goal was. If it was to kill X number of PCs, or a set of particular PCs, and he achieved or surpassed that, then, yeah, he won.

If his goal was to kill EVERY PC, he has not yet won.

If the goal is to survive, you win every event your character completes.

If the goal is to kill a particular PC or NPC, you win the LARP when that happens.

If your goal is to gain a particular spell, item, or ability, you win the LARP when that occurs.

If your goal is be the head of a Guild, House, town, nation, or world, you win when that happens.

LOL, too funny Doug!

CJ, do you really think that most of the town is just stick jockeying their way through the weekends? Cause it really sounds like that every time you talk about the events. And I cringe every time someone accuses someone else of "bad" roleplaying based on their own perspective or outlook of what "good" roleplaying is. Especially when that "good" roleplaying is linked to certain actions or views. A group of sneaky bastards not trusting the other group of sneaky bastards is a lack of role-playing? So because both sneaky bastard "good" sides didn't work together and communicate to defeat the "evil" sneaky bastard? That doesn't even make any sense homes. There is some excellent role playing that happens at these games. Truthfully, people telling the guy they've only seen around town a few times that they'd rather he not come on an important mission is EXCELLENT role-playing IMHO. Or it feels like "you seem trustworthy, let's go on a life threatening adventure together stranger!" I understand you may not always be a part of the good roleplaying, but don't let the fact that people want warriors (surprise, surprise ) to go fight get you down. My suggestion if you want more roleplaying is initiate IG conversations, with people your character hasn't interacted with yet. When you hear people having drawn out OOG conversations interject something in an IG fashion. "What is this...Gen-Con... you people speak of? Is it somewhere near the fishing village or the mines?" It works wonders at times.

[cole45]

This is a long story, I'm not supposed to tell.

About a year ago, it was the one day. The one where Atrum took over, and the Roderick went crazy.

Corbyn was overheard speaking with Don Mayo. He was over heard refering to Atris as his "patsy" and that something big was in the works for the end of they year.

This was a troublesome statement. It concerned us greatly. And we decided to do something about it. We tried telling people. Atris was REPEATEDLY confronted with this information. We knew that neither Donovan or Atrum would do anything with out hard PROOF.

so we set about to gather it. Not only that, we didn't know what was going to happen at the last event, so we tried to avoid it. We set about gathering materials to help us survive.

we looked, and looked, and looked for proof. We went sage hint crazy, we researched, we interrogated, and we got no where.

I did not know the SCOPE of the plan. I thought simply that the Corbyn was going to try to take over Haven AFTER the elves got pushed back.

We were not going to let that happen. so we worked towards that goal.

During the final event, we went along. we found out about a Bell. We set out to put bell together. We got the first bell piece by our selves. we walked right into the Dark elves home and took it and walked out.

The next day, we got help getting 2 pieces of the bell. Don Mayo himself took one of the pieces to the Keep. But we had alric. we convinced him, to convince corbyn that giving two pieces of the bell to the dwarves would be a show of good faith. Luckily he trusted alric. he would have told us to take a leap.

Meanwhile, ingram tired to convince everyone he knew NOT to go to the keep. those who did, lived.

saturday we teamed with alric to get the third bell piece. he was going to get it and give it to corbyn like he promised.
so we went and got it. Then he was convinced to give it to the dwarves, since we had to pass through their land anyway. Otherise they'd be insulted. Alric agreed, since they didn't have the fourth piece anyway.

Then we had the bell reconstructed by the dwarves. it took 8 hours. There was even a show down with Corbyn and his men, and us. we watched the light get darker as we tried to convice them to go away. And they did. I don't know if they thought we didn't have the bell, didn't know what we had, or what.

then we npced as elves. we watched the horror. We we told what time we could come back up with the bell. it was ha;f hour too late to do anything.

So, then we got the bell, placed it, and rang it. Corbyn lost his powers, but he had his box and got them back. we took the bell and bolted. Sen died, when corbyn was down, he went in to finish him off, but his last ditch effort failed miserably.

so, there's that.

[Torakhan]

I was really hoping this topic wouldn't come up again, but it appears it has and so I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I've said this before and it still seems pretty true:
Those who knew Vince as a person and friend were the ones who seemed to believe Corbyn or give him the most chances. Those who did not were the most suspicious it seems.

I've heard rumors that Vince and others were involved in many OOC gatherings where people planned what their characters would do for the betterment of Haven. Vince either did not tell the truth, mislead, or lied at these meetings outright to protect his character's motivations. (If he had opted not to join or say anything, folks would have questioned his motivations OOC. And while this may have smoothed things over more easily OOG when all was said and done, the fact that he needed to go to such lengths to protect his character should be a warning that we should not take what happens in games so seriously.)
In some respects it seems those closest to Vince feel/felt betrayed by him because he mislead his friends. In other respects I understand what he had to do in order to protect his plans in-character. It was a double-edged sword. I hope that those with such wounds heal (or have healed) and will forgive him for what he had to do. I'd heard that he was giving up gaming entirely. I was glad to see him back for the 1-day.

Far too many times we've heard "There's no out of game" in reference to overhearing information. However, there are times when players do mislead out of character for their own character's motivations. Since October I have been witness to several accounts where players insist that another character has done something because their player either said or insinuated that they had... when in fact they have not.
•Are you sure your friend wasn't a part of that raid?
•Are you sure the Sage is actually researching something while you're giving them what they need to survive in payment?
•Are you positive that it was unknown raiders who trashed your and someone else's homes and took supplies, and wasn't that sword supposed to have been stolen?
•Isn't that armor awfully similar to that which your dead-friend was wearing when supposedly everything was burned?
•Howcome your support points don't equal what you were promised at the end of last game?

I guess the lesson here is that you really should not trust what your fellow players say or do when it involves the LARP, unless it's a matter of asking about rule mechanics. If you have questions about what is going on in the game, you'd best talk to a GM who knows.

Yes, I believe you can win in LARP and gaming... but it's a matter of winning battles and objectives (unless you are the sole cause for a game restart to your goal's benefit. )

[Peace420]

We we told what time we could come back up with the bell. it was ha;f hour too late to do anything.

This is why I've wanted the timed skills to be hero-able too. Having Corbyn lose his powers in the middle of that batlle or even before it would have been epic.

I never even met Vince before the first FH, I don't remember him at any of the playtests, I don't think I've ever even hung out OOG at the same place Vince was, outside of possibly dinner at an event.

[Aurora]

Ya know what... can we let this die already before this turns into something more.

I'd like to move forward now and not keep bringing up the past. Is that to much to ask?

[GM_Chris]

It would have been AWESOME to loose the skills during the battle for sure. We, as GM's, struggled on what time the bell would get done.

We did, as Elves, tell Vince the plan, and well Vince did not folow the plan. We, as Elves, told him that we would fight for awhile and only once we broke into the wall on our own power should he turn.

Apparently his strat was better.

[Malachi]

"I don't trust him. Something seems "off" about him."

True story. Never trust lizard people, cat people, or people with wings. Period.

Some could call it "prejudice", but in actuality, all lizard/kitty/winged people use those little oddities about themselves as sort of a firewall.

"Why in the name of all things holy is that lizard/kitty/winged person eating a baby?"

"Well Jim, that's what lizard/kitty/winged people do. It's their cultural right!"

"You're right, Ed. How could he be evil with those awesome wings/soft fuzzy ears/scales?"

Point and match.

[Torakhan]

["You're right, Ed. How could he be evil with those awesome wings/soft fuzzy ears/scales?"
Point and match.

Frakin' hippies. We all know Laura was up to no good.

[Peace420]

Julie, you could just stop reading this thread.
Just because it's here doesn't mean you HAVE to read it.