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Why would assasin be more choded out than empath, rogue, or archer? An empath sits there charging for a minute, and somebody throws a knife or a rock, and they lose the charge. An assassin is no worse off. Besides, if an assassin is doing his job he won't be seen charging in the first place.

I was only referring to the disciplines and there are more ways to resist sleep and fear than anything else in the game.

Before, you could not block disarm with parry, thus the disarm-taunt combination was deadly and choded everyone out. Now you can parry a disarm using parry when the disarm hits you. We came to the conclusion that a disarm can work on you by hitting you or your weapon. For example, I can slash your arm open and make you drop your sword, or I can perform a 6-2-4 bind when you are attempting a reposte and pull your weapon from your hand. Parry can be called at either time.

This means that disarm is crush in nature, it's already been ruled that you cannot parry crush, inconsistent, if you make it that a disarm call needs to hit the person it will solve the problem you mentioned combined with the taunt change. The natural instinct is to block a weapon with your weapon, this change hasn't really solved the problem only made it so that warriors can't be disarmed. As far as damage making you drop a weapon which is more likely to make you drop a weapon a slash on the arm for 1-2 pts of damage or someone planting a blade between your shoulder blades when you weren't expecting it doing 14 pts of damage. Not saying that backstab should cause a disarm just making a point.

As far as disarm being crush or not, it's more or less irelevant since it's a non damaging effect anyway, so thus not parriable via consistancy. And fear is the same level and crush and they are very equivilant skills. One is countered via parry the other resist (or immunity) fear.

Another question. If I heard a warlord song and had immunity to fear and was a thief, got into combat and was hit with a fear effect while charging, would it break my charge? And what is the call for immunity to fear? Not really a resist...

I would guess the call is 'No effect'. And the effect really should be none - ie. your charge shouldn't be broken.

Yeah Eric but what they're saying is that disarm can be parried via the skill, so really we are saying the same thing that, it being parriable is inconsistent with the rules thus far.

I wasn't comparing fear and crush I was comparing fear and sleep only in that they both have more resists than anything else in the game.

Er sorry should have read my post that should have been fear is comparable with crush vs. disarm and vorpal... Both result in the oppenents death (assuming you can run as fast or faster than the other pc) Now with both being resistable via someting. I really don't have an issue with the disarm being the exception to the rule as long as it's in the parry description.

Warrior vs. warrior there wouldn't be a reason to use disarm until after you've vorpaled the person a few times. Then once you finally disarmed them (via multiple disarm attempts), you'd disarm them then switch back to vorpal. No need for taunt since they can't run anyway.

With fear, fear the person and swing while they run.

Speaking of which could a scout use flee if they are feared? 4th level vs. 3rd would lean towards yes.

Lots of good points. I like the arguments.

As for verpalnerpal yes I know there are more ways to counter sleep, but there are more ways to stop nerve pinch and stun strike.

Chris

I had a thought on Disarm - To use disarm one must hit the other persons weapon and call disarm. They would know which weapon needs to thrown and it would be very obvious if you have been disarmed or not. The only counter is parry. The disarmed person would be still protected if they have a shield, they can run away, or draw anthor weapon.

Sleep - counter with resist sleep, crush effect
Fear - counter with resit fear, crush effect
Nerve Pinch - counter with armor, touch effect
Disarm - counter parry, weapon touch effect
Crush - counter n/a, crush effect
Vorpal - counter n/a, touch effect
Lash - counter parry, crush effect
Emapth boom, counter magic, crush effect
Magic sleep - counter resist sleep & resist magic, crush effect
Mafic fear - counter resist fear & resist magic, crush effect
Stun strike - counter helemt, touch effect
Back stab - counter n/a (must hit the back), touch effect

What I meant by more ways to resist sleep and fear is that there is a guild skill, assuming a spell and potion, discipline(s), and monster races have immunities. there are no disciplines that resist the other calls and of the other calls only nerve pinch and stun monster races have immunities to and when they were originally written up there were still more races that resisted sleep and fear than nerve pinch and stun.

Still think that disarm should have to hit the body, it would represent the skill required to actually perform a disarm as opposed to swinging have someone do what they normally would do which is block the incoming swing and then as the weapons hit each other someone calls disarm.

Honestly though anyone in armor can resist nervepinch and stunstrike so it takes nothng special to resist those.

Chris

Problem with changing disarm to either body or weapon is it imbalances the barbarian. Fear is a crush effect and just as deadly as disarm. Thus, disarm must be a crush effect as well. Though I do have to admit, I think the sage should be able to give a parry as one of their options for resists (thus increasing the ability to resist disarm)

As for parry only being available to master warrior, well one, that his only worthwhile skill (imo) and, two, it's not just a resist disarm. As well, carrying a second weapon counters a disarm, since the swashbuckler couldn't guard both weapons from being picked up. And once he's used all his disarms, he has no hps left.

And lastly, if you aren't a warrior, you shouldn't try to fight one. This should and does get you dead.

I have a rule clarifying question in the Rules Question forum that speaks to some degree to a couple of these rule changes...

please check out.

spence

Please post link

Chris

Chris I was just explaining what I meant to Aaron, and yeah armor can stop both of the others.

As far as Disarm being comparative to Fear the Swashbuckler gets both with the change and his fear effect is at first level. How in the world is that balanced at all? The other difference is that the Barabarian doesn't get taunt so you just flee from him as opposed to being compelled to fight or flee him. If you start comparing the swashbuckler to everything else you'll quickly see that as far as offensive prowess it outstrips all of the other disciplines. It does have it's drawbacks but when you combine it with Warrior it gets really nasty.

Taunt is more or less moot now with the fact that someone can run. What else are you going to do when you enter a combat? You either fight or you flee. I'd prefer to see taunt as engage in melee combat or flee as per the fear ability. Makes it useful vs mages.

Fear, however, forces anyone (including the warrior which normally might not run from taunt) to run away. This gives a very nice opportunity to hit the back. At 3 damage a hit, that begins to hurt quickly. Plus this is with a polearm so hitting the back isn't that tough. And without know everything about emulate totem, you could have impale giving you the ability to kill those with resist fear via them losing 5 life, giving you the ability to run them out of resists, fearing them, then either charging another impale or just chase them down and kill them same as anyone else.

As well, take the barbarian vs. the swashbuckler. The barbarian will always win this battle. Fear, whack em till they die. Swashbuckler never gets the chance to use an ability. No swashbuckler will have more than 20 life/armor so 7 hits takes them down. Swashbuckers are neat but not overpowered. And in mass combat they are less useful than a thief due to their abilities being life based and them having little to no armor.

Edit: by barbarian, I mean beast hunter... doh.

OMG, Beast hunter is an awesome killer! 2nd level warrior, 4th level beast hunter, 3rd Druid. What exactly happens when you fear someone once they are rooted? This is just wrong, since you have to have resist fear and resist magic to counter him.

Granted druid with swashbuckler is nice too via root disarm. Can you escape from root while taunted? Not as powerful though since you only need parry and resist magic. A single discipline witch hunter can do this.

OMG, Beast hunter is an awesome killer! 2nd level warrior, 4th level beast hunter, 3rd Druid. What exactly happens when you fear someone once they are rooted? This is just wrong, since you have to have resist fear and resist magic to counter him.


Very good point these are the combos we want to hear from people because we do not think of them.

Chris