Alchemy and game time

[GM_Chris]

Interesting.

We as GM's had a huge debate on brew times and finally had to bring in some players to help out who were experts in alchemy. After some deliberation the experts feel the brew times are right on target. These guys have been playing alchemy since day 1 and have been very vocal about it being underpowered in relation to arcane. I think we did good here but it will take time to find out.

I understand your frustration. When you had an idea of what you wanted to do and that is taken away in your eyes it becomes very frustrating.

I would say the biggest unspoken complainnt or perhaps uneasiness is the changes to soak. The reason for the complaints IMO, corect me if I am wrong, is you as a player feel you will be less heroic, wont be able to keep up, and will die easily.

What I find odd is when we started FH and everyone was a newb no one came to us feeling that way. Now before the game OH boy we had people from CARPS refusing to come because they felt the system was too deadly. There were loud complaints that everyone was going to die. Now in 2 years how many PC's died directly to the hands of NPC's and neeeded a res?

Also, your chances for survival and chances for heroic action are a product of the NPC's and plot team NOT whether you can swing 1 or 5 damage. We want to do the type of job that even the person who decides to take no skills and remain 0 level can feel heoric. I can tell you to date I think we have accomplished this on average.

Lastly, FH is about situational awsomenss. You will be hard pressed to come up with a universal concept (not saying you are). Last event people were saying wow look at Dueger but geez I was a dwarf man at arms with defensive matrix against creatures that swing 1, cause sleep, cause fear, and press. I dont think it could have been better for that concept. On the other hand there was the first event we had undead and people saw Dallid open up with banish for the first time. Imagine a year without undead and the undead hunter cannot even use one of their skills. It is all very interesting.

Anyways PM me your concept and I will be happy to help you think of ways to make it work.

Chris

[Peace420]

I feel your pain Wes, I'm an alchemist crafstman as well. But you have to look at it like this. Crafstman, the most powerful discipline in the game, especially at level 4. Some may argue that they don't get +1 damage or resists but every game you will have someone come to you asking to make armor or weapons or to repair their armor or to upkeep their stuff. And I can tell you these guys don't give out special weapons just willy-nilly. Now that there are concrete rules on uber weapons there will probably be more but in the nearly 3 years I've been playing this game I've seen 2 "magic weapons" and one made most of the town try and kill the rest every time they picked it up, I'm still looking for that one If you play it right you can be the richest person on the field. Now throw alchemy on top of that, next to arcane the most versatile discipline in the game. The only reason I'd say it's less versatile is because we have to have a potion already done and an arcane can just spend time and cast any spell they have. Not to mention potions can bring a pretty penny as well.

I guess my point is that while there is some IG time that has to be invested by both of those disciplines the benefits are huge and they can provide some excellent role-play chances. Lambic and Atrum out collecting herbs together shooting the shit and such. Thoe IMO are the things that make an event great for me, not killing the army of a false king.

[GM_Chris]

Hmm you know you didnt kill the false king.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok that was rude.


Anyways Erik is correct in that alchemy and craftsman has the potential for coin. One problem before was there wasnt any coin. Hard to justify spenind a food token on 1 potion. Easier to justify a 10th of a food token on a potion though.

Coinage will make things interesing

Chris

[Peace420]

Hmm you know you didnt kill the false king.

No, but I tried. And there were only 3 of us standing there when he dropped so...

[Lambic]

First of all I want to thank both of you (Chris and Eric ) because your guys responses were awesome. Well temper, informative and polite. I'm not sure mine was no matter how much I tried.

Second, I want the GMs to understand I complain because I care. I really like the game and the world and my character. This is why this stuff matters to me. This is why I get worked up at times.

I am PMing Chris my concept so that I he can help me, later tonight.

Now, You guys have a very valid point about the ability of Alchemist and Craftsmen to make coin. Except that it doesn't seem like this should be a factor in considering whether or not the power level of one discipline is equal with another. At least not is a game where the economic system is being left up to the players.

Really my point is that when one compares potions to spells, taking into account time and power and duration, it seems like to me that spells will come out on top. I guess I was looking for a way to brew between events or a lower of amount of time for brewing or boost in the power level of potions.

Arcane was brought down some and alchemist was brought up some. My examples for this are Arcanes loosing Carapace and Alchemy gaining Free the Beast. These are great changes, I'd just like to see a little more. I do also realize that not all of the spells and potions are represented on this list, but I guess I'm having a hard time seeing alot of new potions of this caliber/power level to be coming, without replacing old potions.

Now I could be out of line on this. Maybe I am seeing fault were there is none. Possibly there are still things unrevealed by the GMs. I will attempt to trust the GMs.

[Lambic]

Hmm you know you didnt kill the false king.

No, but I tried. And there were only 3 of us standing there when he dropped so...

I watched them drop him and then went up to the body and the GM who had been playing him. I then burned the body. However, on the walk back I ran into at least 3 people that reported to have parts of the body.

[McEwan]

I watched them drop him and then went up to the body and the GM who had been playing him. I then burned the body. However, on the walk back I ran into at least 3 people that reported to have parts of the body.

Does this fall under the "There is no out of game" clause?

Lambic are you saying you witnessed someone desicrating the dead?

May I ask who it was?

*Attempts to look calm and mild while fingering his axe*

[GM-Mike]

Actually the power level of Alchemy appears to be growing behind the scenes and new potions are worked on daily, some as wild and crazy as Free the Beast, some less, and, I dare say, some more.

As for brewing between events, originally you could do that but when players had 425 healing potions, it got to be a problem. We then swung it the other way so that you could not brew anything between events, which is better. Not saying there isn't a better solution out there but between the two extremes, the current one is best.

[Ravinal]

I believe you said it was you who was carrying his head, McEwan.


As for the between event ideal. If it were to eve occur, I would say to just limit the max amount made over downtime due to level of the character. 1 potion first level 2 potions second level....and so forth. Kind of explaining away the low amount of potions made over downtime to being busy with continued adventures and daily life. And of course the consumption of potions in general over that downtime. But of course......that's just a idea.

[Lambic]

I completely agree that is was it was waaaay out of whack. Here is one of my suggestions, You get an events worth of time to brew between events, so 40 hours. I think that would be a nice boost, without over powering.

[Peace420]

With the increase in the amount of potions that can be brewed at once and the clear idea of what a potion, a spell, and a sage buff should do and cost I think alchemy and arcane will be much better balanced than before. There were a few different disciplines that could do inbetween events stuff but it works out better if those things are done IG. I think the amount of potions will be just about right now, what you don't want is there to be a room stockpiled with potions, it will devalue the skill and the alchemist IG if everytime somone needs a potion they just go to a potion storage room and choose from the abundance of potions there.

[Nelkie]

Hey Eric,

I like that idea of a potion storage room

Hmm how many alchmist are required to make this happen.....

I would say 6 masters and about 15 level 1alchmist, than it might be feasable. Any one want to be alchmist??? I'll pay you in potions

[WayneO42]

Hey Eric,

I like that idea of a potion storage room

Hmm how many alchmist are required to make this happen.....

I would say 6 masters and about 15 level 1alchmist, than it might be feasable. Any one want to be alchmist??? I'll pay you in potions

You are a sick man

[Lambic]

Could we counteract the stock piling (spelling??) with experation dates? Maybe 3 events for common potions and 6 more ones with exotic/rare ingredients? Or 2 events per level of potion?

[WayneO42]

Thats a logistical nightmare. It would work for the player side but the GM portion of tracking potion expiration dates would be a nightmare. I really think we need to see how things play out for the year. Also remember you are only seeing a few potions right now. At the end of the season, if the majority of the alchemists still think they are underpowered, then we will take some corrective action. The most likely corrections will be to brew times and the number of potions you can brew at one time. Another thought was to allow the expendature of a magical component to speed up brewing time with a max of 50% reduction. Something like 10-25% reduction per component (1 mystic resource=4 magic components)