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Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:31 am

Well Here I am at the larp page and I saw an idea I kinda liked and wanted your thoughts. This idea is just an idea not a specific rule implimentation.

"I don't propose any sort of "bleeding out" mechanism, because I don't believe timed effects are larpable, and I don't think gradual death mechanics add to the enjoyment of the game.

I believe a "finishing blow" requirement for death is beneficial to all fantasy larps, as it allows more control over the issue most important to characters: when they die. "

I have also been thinking of armor (something I still do not feel good about)
I was wondering how you guys feel about people who have armor pay an upkeep at say check-in or check-out. Then during an event armor repair is done by a craftman with no resource cost and just make it like healing. VERY similar to how it is done now.

Thought?
-Chris

Kathryn Skress · Post by **Kathryn Skress** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:41 am

this is very reminicint to how CARPs handles weapons upkeep. I'm just wondering... why bother? will this increase or decrease the overall upkeep of armor?

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:50 am

We need upkeep to have an economy. Basically there needs to be taxes and such or there is no real (true) economy.

on a side note

Right now we have lots of metal and not much leatherarmor even though I have to believe that hide is in abundance. Personally I dont think metal is scarce enough in the system.

-Chris

Kathryn Skress · Post by **Kathryn Skress** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:06 pm

Sorry, maybe I didn't word that right... maybe this isn't true for all the smiths in game, but I know when Eli fixes armor, he charges units of metal. Maybe not in all cases all of the time, but it happens and so therefor simulates an economy of some sort. Perhaps NPC's don't see this, and so don't believe there is an economy in metal trade.

Now, not being a smith myself, I don't know if the rules call for actual expenditure of metal to fix armor, and that's perhaps why NPC's are considering charging upkeep. So, basically, I guess I am looking for clarification... Do the rules currently call for expenditure of metal when repairing armor, and if so, will the proposed new upkeep replace or be in addition to that rule?

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:21 pm

I think timed death works very well, and we do have the finishing blow.

Going from timed death to perpetual unconciousness would require a number of changes to this system. I don't think it's necessary, and prefer things the way they are.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:30 pm

Currently at least in my understanding it's 3 units to repair armor, no matter if it's light med or heavy. And there are leather armors IG Azara Arthos and Atrum for sure have leather armor and I believe that Garion does too if Ken can ever make it to an event. He has had his kid on the weekends that the events have been and right now he can't move those days around.

The repair of armor is something that I have always thought needed to be worked on, first off to make it fair across the board, it doesn't make sense that it would take the same amount to repair light and heavy. secondly because it currently takes way too much in resources to fix your armor. But there were much more important things to look at and while armor was still up in the air as to how it was going to be done .I figured I'd wait but since your bringing the issue up there are my opinions.

As far as charging an upkeep I think that if you change the way the resources are handled to upkeep armor to make it more fair the other parts will work themselves out IG. If you feel that you need to control it in some way make an NPC craftsman or Bill can finally bring his dwarf in and charge what you feel is a fair price. If the towns craftsmen wish to earn $$ they can charge that same thing or if they wish to barter they can do so. I really like the fact that there is no OOG\IG upkeep and that it's basically all done IG, if Eli wishes to fix anyones armor for free he can and if he wishes to charge anyone he can.

Oh yeah I like the idea of timed death too it's much more realistic than perpetual unconciousness, after all if you get stabbed a bunch of times and don't get help you will bleed out eventually.

One more thing I believe that hide is probably the scarcest of all of the resources at this point. At least IG, you guys have to remember that you gave a buttload of cloth and iron to Kathryn and Roland and the only hide has been skinned or gotten in trade.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:36 pm

The armor change was to simplify the armor healing rules which right now I think are complicated thats all.

See I dont see any issue with bleeding out except if you are RP'ing. Right now the rules try to stop people from keeping track of time and RP'ing at the same time except in two situations. One situation is when you are in negatives and you are talking. The second is when you are in negatives and you are fighting (warrior). I have the agree with the person I quoted that it is VERY hard to keep track of a timed effefct while your mind is on something other than counting. I would prefer to get rid of that level of complexity to the game if possible.

-Chris

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:39 pm

It is possible but as Doug said it would mean a reworking of alot of things, Tsunotaur and Healer just as examples.

Onyksi Rin'oviryn · Post by **Onyksi Rin'oviryn** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:07 pm

Here's the thing about having a "true" economy in FH. If you're familiar with historical materialism at all, places with a growing population, especially one that just had a fairly large natural disaster, have to go through certain stages of economic growth before what you term a "true" economy (feudalism) can happen. There is a natural order and process of how an economy grows, and certain factors play a huge role in that. Population, amount of resources, amount of land, etc.. Right now, the economy would be considered to be in the tail end of barbarism and the very beginning of feudalism. There's not quite enough people for the economy to progress any further. There's only a couple people to serve each role in society, and some niches that haven't been filled at all. Once more people are added, then everyone can really start to specialize their talents and the economy will naturally evolve into a more feudal one. This will happen on its own eventually, so I wouldn't try to push it on everyone with rules. Plus, it is already starting to happen, and allowing it to grow on its own, sans rules, will add to the richness and quality of the game. (In my opinion.)

Nelkie · Post by **Nelkie** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:56 pm

I do not like upkeep on armor, nor do I like the way the system is right now.

Lets keep it simple, when your armor is destroyed you must spend resources to repair it. Get rid of of the armor is at -1 it's total. It gets to confusing.

Light Armor takes 1 resource, Medium takes 2, Heavy takes 3 resources
or
Light Armor takes 1 resource, Medium takes 1, Heavy takes 2 resources
(This is because amror repair will happen more often)

As for Field repair cut the time in half. The effect is to bring the armor up to 1/2 it's value, than half of the half, etc until you get down to 1 and the armor can not be repaired at all. Round up all fractions

Example
Light Armor = 5, 3, 2,1, must spend resources
Heavy armor = 13, 7, 4, 2, 1 must spen resources

Simple but still forces the use of resources.

Now you ask the question what if I have different armor types on. You use the highest or worst time and cost to repair the armor.

Example would I have a heavy chest plate and light arms & legs, you would have to use the heavy armor repair time and the heavy armor repair cost.

Post by **WayneO42** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:02 pm

I like Aaron's idea. It seems more intuitive to me and it still requires material costs eventually.

Dallid · Post by **Dallid** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:13 pm

Not to mention, it's not that hard to estimate when a minute or two's gone by. Sure, you can't be counting the seconds while you're fighting, but you'll eventually realize "Hey! I've been fighting in the negatives for awhile now. I do believe I'm dead!" THUD.

And, without timed death, the warrior under the current system would be literally unstoppable.

Peace420 · Post by **Peace420** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:25 pm

Oh yeah forgot all about that fighting in negatives thing. To take the timed death out of this system would really be a rewrite of a large chunk of the system.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:17 pm

The reason light, medium, and heavy use the same amount of resources is because I believe in RL they do as well. If I want to make an entire suit of leather armor I will be utilizing a cow. Now if all armor used some generic resourse I can see the argument to light being less than heavy, but currently we have it so hide is a hell of alot easier to get than metal thus it is more economical to have light over heavy armor.

-Chris

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:39 pm

Never been a fan of upkeep since honestly it doesn't take metal to maintain armor or weapons. It takes oil.

As for the non-timed death, that is a _huge_ undertaking, with the amount of changes necessary. If you want to change bleeding though, you have to change determination, endurance, beserk, hold ground, Tsunatuar, first aid, extend life, surgery, meditate, and the guild bonus. Sad, my character is affected by six of the ten items... sigh.

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I saw a neat I dea

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