New Dicipline Idea

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:05 pm

Pretty sure you could make it to five. A healing potion is always worth one. With Healer Administer you have two. With Sage Administer (Not the buff, the SKILL, level 2 advanced ability) you have three. With Medic administer, you would have four.

Buffing administer with the sage buff would make it five.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:18 pm

If someone wants to check my math, here is what I have so far regarding the administer thing from a maximized point:

Healer to Administer (Advanced Healer) - 60
Basic Healer for free, Advanced Healer for 60 points

Sage to Administer - 100
20 for Research
20 for Read/write 2 languages
20 for Utilize Resources
40 for Administer

Medic (With level 2 Administer) to Administer -
0 for 1st level Medic
20 for 2nd level Medic Administer

Basic Alchemy - 20

You are looking at about 200 points there.

You could have another sage Augment you with the administer Augment, or you could spend another 40 points to purchase Augment (right after sage Administer) and buff yourself.

At this point, you are at 240 points out of 335 at level 20.

Your level 1 potions are worth 5 under this arrangement:
1 Base +1 Healer +1 Sage +1 Medic +1 Augment Bonus

However, I'm not sure how big of a deal it would be, because you can get +4 now and I don't see too many people making that kind of build.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:56 pm

Toss in either a certain hidden discipline (replacing Medic as your first) and you are the greatest healer in negs ever. alone.

This alone is why administer cannot be second level. It's a break.

Alternatively, you could spend your other points on gaining master healer and be an awesome surgeon.

Kalphoenix · Post by **Kalphoenix** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:16 am

dier_cire wrote: Alternatively, you could spend your other points on gaining master healer and be an awesome surgeon.

Actually, I took it to mean the Medic could "Assist" the healer performing surgery, not that they could enhance themselves...that is why I thought a couple enhancements might be nice, of course restricted to the fact that you couldn't enhance yourself. Basically the Medic handles Triage and then later acts as the Surgeon's assistant.

And I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, I agree that the potions deal might be overpowered, but does that mean we should move Administer up in the existing skill lists? After all, you can already do a build that will give you +3 to a potion for a bonus of 4 LPs so I don't see how an additional +1 for 5 LPs total is THAT big of a difference. While I haven't seen anyone playing this build, I have considered it in the past. I don't know if we have anyone using this template around, though.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:14 am

I took it to mean the Medic could "Assist" the healer performing surgery

Should call the discipline Nurse

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:32 am

Eric,

What is the difference between healing 4 life and 5 life with a potion? I know that being able to heal 4 to 5 life with a potion is very powerful. It's great in negatives, but also great to keep warriors alive when they are holding ground or need a quick heal.

Would not the cost balance out the +1 benifit? A master healer medic with sage bonus. Yes, they could bring some one from -27 by themselves with no risk of drawing chips, but thats all they can do and it would take 2 potions and 2.5 minutes. This build feasibily could bring a person back from -81 life if all nine white chips are drawn and they have 11 heal 1 life potions.

Master healer -150
Medic - 90
Sage - 100
Total skill points - 340 which is level 32

Note: The max negative life the current healer/sage can bring a person back from negatives using potions, first aid, and surgery is - 56.
Note: can always do life trasnference, use more powerful potions, additional surgeons, etc.. so a grouip could bring a person from -100 + neatives in the current rules. Would adding another negative option be that big of a problem?

In my mind, there is a ton of ways in game to bring a person back from deep negatives right now. Bringing in one more skill would not be bad.

The break is the druid skill (life transference-transfer 1 life for 1 life instanteuoly to another person) Now, the break comes in if there ever is any item in game that allows the transference of 2 life for 1 life. Then addition of the extra admin is broken. As long as no item is allowed in game that increases the life transference, than there should be no issue.
Being able to drink a cure 1 potion that gives you 5 life and turn around and grant 10 life to anybody (negative/postive) is broken.

Lets take a look at points
Druid 4th level - 90
Healer 2nd level - 60
Sage - 100
Medic - 60
Alchmey-20

Total points - 330 level 20
This build allows a person to instanteously transfer 5 life to anybody and can heal a person in infint negatives as long as they have potions.

I believe the Druid transference skill needs to be tweaked to limit the number life points they can transfer to a person in negatives. If that happens, the break is gone, and an item that grants 2 life for 1 life is not broken anymore. Powerful, but not broken.
I would suggest you can only instanteously transfer 5 to 10 life to a negative person. Or you could say a potion takes 30 secounds to take effect. Some type of limiting factor so a person could not drink 100 potions and instaneouly transfer 100+ life. Right now, the druid transfer life skill can be more powerful than sugery!

Also, Please enforce people to carry potion vials around, and that they have to pull them out to use the potion. 1 small potion vial for each potion would work great. Also, could potions takes X (10-30 secs) amount of time to effect a person would be great. It would stop people from drinking a ton of potions in a secound and getting the effect instaneously.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:13 am

in the first LARP i played , potions HAD to be phys reped with 4 ounces of liquid that you HAD to consume to get the effect. IE a juice box was common.

This limited how many people carried, had its own "count" since the faster the drank the faster you used the potion IG, AND this helpes with dehydration (not a huge issue at FH or WH) which was just seen as icing on the corn dog.

Some bought re usable vials that could be sealed and filled em with water/kool aid, etc... Others used pre packaged things.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:23 am

The difference between 5 and 6 is no different than 1 to 2, or 2 to 3, or 3 to 4, or 6 to 7, or 7 to 8... The point is you have to stop at some point.

The simple fact that, in healer, extend life is lower level than administer should be a huge clue as to why the discipline as written doesn't work. Flipping those two fixes the problem.

There's already holes in the healing system as it stands. Let's not reinforce them.

General Maximus · Post by **General Maximus** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:49 am

I can see the point of drawing the line in the sand. Is +3 to healing potions enough, or is +4?

Yes, the negative healing is broken and the fear of not dying by negatives is back.

The question we as PC and NPC have to answer is, how deadly do we want the game? Should going into negative 15 be scary? Right now it is a joke. How deep into negatives do we want people to go before they start sweeting and fearing the chip draw?

I think negative 15 should be scary and some work should be required to bring them back. Some small changes can be made to fix that. What do people think?
1. Fixes, remove +1 potions from sage buff
2. Druid healing transfer only effects postivies, or can not be instaneously
3. Limit the disaplines with negative healing capabilities

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:56 am

How did neg healing become un scary?

Could you tell me what the max neg a person can do?

Perhaps the fix is a healer is requiered to bring a person out of negs. Basically a death and dieing add on that requiers a person to use surgery if over neg 2.

Let me word it like this:

A person who is over neg 2 can only be brought healed by a person with the surgery skill.

Surgery skill:
1) You can use as many potions as you want.
2) Once healed the person must choose X chips from the bag.

This removes the 2 potion requierment and any other rule/discipline we may add in the future. It puts in a 10% chance of deah for anyone over neg2.

Thoughts?

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:57 am

To your suggestions, my reply is yes to all.

But I want the game to be deadlier anyway.

Wyrmwrath · Post by **Wyrmwrath** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:12 am

A person who is over neg 2 can only be brought healed by a person with the surgery skill.

Not sure where that is stated, since a bleeding person can recieve 2 potions and if they are level 4 potion that -8. more if they are a healer.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:29 am

We have been trying to make negs scary. We have been trying to accomplish that by adding in things like "2 potion limit" "mystic requiered to make 4hp potions" and making sure we do not get too many combo skills. Unfortunatly we yet again got too many combo skills.

So why spend a TON of time on trying to balance a bunch of potions and combo skills when we have a mechanic and that is called the chip bag.

For the chip bag to work then you have to reuire a healer, but we have first aid.

Basically what I am saying is...if you are far enough into negs that first aid can no longer help then you need a person with surgery and if you are that far down I do not care how many potions you got you are drawing a chip. This would create at the least a 10% change of death anytime you hit negs.

dier_cire · Post by **dier_cire** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:40 am

Chris, I don't think we need to limit healing in negs to a healer (since PCs will want mystic and alchemical ways to keep someone alive) as much as to fix the Druid hole and then stop adding ways to make healing in negs easier (ie administer and the Medic skill).

1. max surgery at +10 (ie no medic bonus)
2. max potions at 2 (and +3 bonuses)
3. eliminate the ability of the druid to heal in negatives.

Now you are at a max of a single surgeon healing up to -26 (using two heal 4 potions). Now with extend life, an additional healer and an additional empath (and 25 life worth in sucking sources) you could do up to -51.

This to me still seems high but in order to remove it, you'd have to change something in either healer/empath tranference or something in extend life / healing / surgery.

Post by **GM_Chris** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:53 am

EXACTLY!

Neg 31 or 51 are both stupid. Before you get that far down a person will chop your head off.

The point is to make negs scary. Throw in a chip draw and the problem is solved.

Basically you need to bow out of combat bfore you fall over dead and drink potions before you fall too far down.

New Dicipline Idea

anyone think this is cool?