After the Event Questions

[Todd]

As it stands, this is the way it works. It was offered to 1 PC (who remains undecided), 1 PC (who has not yet reached 4th LVL), and was used by one Psuedo-PC (who ironically used the same Totem as the undecided PC)

You gain; A natural attack- 2 small (dagger sized) claws or 1 short (shortsword sized) claw, horn, tail, etc. And a special ability- poison, flee etc.

It takes 30 seconds to change forms, you change forms completely. Once tansformed into your animal totem You can use no skills, can not use any weapons, armor, shields, potions, equipment. It melds into the body. If druid goes unconiuousness they revert back to their human shape. Takes 30 seconds to transform into, and out of, totem animal.
While in animal form you can not speak, but can understand whats going on around you. Your LP's stay the same. Lets remember the skill is called 'Emulate Totem' not 'Become a Bad-Ass'
While as animal, you must wear an NPC sash. (This one wasnt required at the time, but is a good idea non the less)
The abilities of the chosen animals have already been writen up for our own stats should we run plots/encounters with them. It is a small matter to adapt them. Once they have been set for that animal, they will not be changed. If we end up with 100 Fox Druids, rest assured they will all have the exact same ability. (Of course if we end up with 100 of them its obviously too powerful )

As I said, this is how it work 'as it stands'. I think that it works very well and am personally very against changing it.


Footnote; the benifit of a quality helmet would be that it would be enchantable. Eric is correct in that a quality helmet gains NO armor bonus.

[Nelkie]

Ok here is my issue with Tod's suggestion. By transforming into your animal you become less powerful than a 0 level character with basic equipment.

First dagger sized claws that can block weapons are not very powerful and is equvalant to a level 1 arcane spell. If you ever fought with 2 daggers you will die very quickly against a shield and weapon, a larger weapon, or 2 short sword claws NPC use. It becomes a disadvantage to go melee with dagger sized claws.
Yes you get the advantage of dual wielding that cannot be disarmed, but it is very hard to hit anything with out taking damage yourself because of the short reach. The exception is if you are Brad Liedel, some how he can do it, but I do not have years to master his fighting style.
I would not have an issue if the claws where up to medium sized short swords 28” long. It gives a chance to block some incoming hits and be able to defend yourself. This ability is all most as good as the second level monk ability, but the monk can have short sword size fist, 36”. To counter this ability one can not pick up any items, use shields, use potions, magic weapons, or any equipment. I think it a fair trade off.

Second is loose all your skills, you can not speak and can not wear armor. A very big disadvantage and the bonus you get can not replace all the skills you lose. All other 4th level disciplines grant you a big bonus, +1 to damage, flee, plant suggestion, create resurrection potions, etc. 4th level druid does not.

This what I would like to see with 4th level druid skill

30 seconds to change in animal. Must wear a head band in changed form. Takes 30 secs to change back to human shape. If go unconscious revert back to human shape

Advantages:
Claws – size 28”, duel wield, can block weapons
Can speak to animals of totem while in animal shape
Shape of animal – disguise
Get 1 ability of the animal while in animal shape, as per monster spec’s

Disadvantages:
Cannot use any weapons, potions, armor, shields, equipment – all get absorbed into the body
Can not speak
Can not use skill that require speech to perform
Can not use any skills that are equipment dependent
Can not pick up anything while in animal form

I have no problem with this, and I feel it is easy and balanced.

[dier_cire]

Actually, Aaron, monk gets a 12" fist that can block and can wield a short sized weapon (36").

And Wayne, yeah, I considered the problem of the added call, but 'stun' was just removed so it is more of a replacement call.

Main direction I'd prefer to see shifting go: I'd rather see it in it's own discipline. There's too much to try to fit into one skill. Make Druid a generalist nature freak and have a Shifter discipline to cover the need to have people changing forms (which I think is a bad idea in general, anytime you need require a sash to describe your character sucks)

Druid ability: basically I'm looking at a skill that in combat removes a monster from it for double/quadruple the charge time. 30 secs to charge, 1-2 minutes out of combat.

Also at a minimum, 4th level needs to have a no armor requirement. That way you have to take off the armor (forcing you to re calculate your hp and armor total) before shifting, if it ends up stuck that way. And for note, you remain human sized, no matter the totem. If you can't side under a cabin, neither can your animal form.

If it's deemed to be shifting, I've got my handy dandy tmnt rping manual to list every single animal so it can be balance checked (ugh).

[Peace420]

I like the way the NPC's have it except that I would change a few small things.
1) Makes the claws 2 claws period, even if the animal doesn't have 2 claws that way there are the same mechanics for all of them. Can use a shield and 1 claw.

2) Instead of transforming completely you take on aspects of your totem. Bird, your hair becomes slightly feathery, feet become like claws,. Bear, you become slightly furry (color or your bear) and grow claws. Snake slightly scaly and fanged. This could even be permanent which would be a disadvantage.

3) Choose a skil from list if you guys have one already as long as the skills on that list aren't any of the uber ones. 1st level disciplines and first skills in a path or the equivalent (see below).

4) Keep your armor and life pts (elilminates having to remember 2 sets of
#s)

5) cannot cast spells, administer potions to others or yourself, cannot speak or use any skills that require it. Speak with animals of your type remembering animals are dumb and cannot give you very detailed information. "Where did the necromancer go" would yield "North or towards the water"

Call it Spirit of the Beast or Totem or something. This way you don't lose all of your other skills and you gain the ability to dual wield and a minor skill which seems balanced for a 4th level discipline.

PS. I do very much like the pacify animal thing if you could find a way to work that in, maybe as a skill on the list of skills. takes a count and works on 1 animal?

[dier_cire]

Another line of thought, why not throw out the claws? Part of the problem is trying to balance dual wielded undisarmable short swords into a fourth level skill. Why do they need to be in the skill other than it'd be cool? Just give each animal a different skill. Basically, you get furry (no full form) and gain an ability in addition to everything you already have. Heh, noticed I already said this, oh well.

Granted, it could also be a single claw and if you have florentine, you can dual wield. Limits the problem but still has a combo that's very powerful.

[Peace420]

If it was gonna go that way then I would say you could still cast spells or use potions and pick things up. Possibly not spells that require speech.

[Nelkie]

Hows this,
The druid can transform into a human shaped creature of their totem (In wearwolf that would be Crinos) Takes 30 secs to change to and from the from.

Bonus whilein from:
Can communicate with totem animal - RPing
Get some type of bonus based on animal while in form


Negative
Cannot speak
Look like a monster

It is simple and the NPC can determine what the bonus is while in the form. Can use any skill (minus if it requires speach) and equipment.

Becasue the ability can only be used in altered form and there is negatives attached to the skill, the ability or smaller abilites are slightly more powerful than a normal 4th level ability.

Examples - Bear - Gains rage ability, if has rage, get +2 to damge. Max damge is still 3.
Scorpin - Must pick target, 30 count charge, next attack is 2 posin 2
Rat - Harden skin 2 (repersent quickness) and Must pick target, 30 count charge, next attack is 1 disease 1
Bird - Flee as per scout
Wolf - 2 harden skin (tough and quick) & level 2 back stab (6 damage) or + 3 to back stab (hamstring attack).

As eric suggetion, get rid of claws all toether, and you can use equipment and most skills.

[Robin]

*head hurts from all the mechanics*

Aaron: As for the three stones, I collected them and gave them back to Elder Quetzle. ^_^

[dier_cire]

*envisioning a crinos biting someone in the a$$*

[Todd]

Usually I apologize incase I come off as a dick in my posts. Today I could give a shit. Maybe its cause I'm tired and cranky, maybe its just cause I'm tired of every ounce of roleplaying flavor being eliminated to the wims of powergaming. At this point I say eliminate it all together and think of a new skill. One that doesnt require NPC's, or OOG communication, or create a new call.

~fin~

[dier_cire]

I actually like the idea of shifting but just think it needs it's own discpline. The sheer fact that we are trying to put mulitple skills into one says there's something wrong. It's like we're trying to use a hammer on a puzzle piece that won't fit.

To be honest, your ability to role play has nothing to do with rules. One rule gives you no more opportunity than any other (one could psuedo-emulate shifting already, just by role playing a skill). PCs will find a way to role play with or without shifting.

[Robin]

*gives Todd a hug to get rid of the crankyness* ^_^

[Dallid]

Exactly why I figured tailoring the skill to each individual would be best - enhances the way that PC can play the character - roleplaying and all. But, this is ending exactly the way I thought it would:

"Looks like the players are excited and happy about the possibilites of this skill - look at all the discussion. Better get rid of it."

[Todd]

In all honesty Doug I owe you the biggest apology. I was excited about the skill. I realy like the skill. I was enthused by your enthusiasm. I was thrilled to work on it. Then I have to listen to all the complaints about why its not powerful enough. Why it doesnt have enough combat implications. I would think you of all people would understand my plight, seeing as you were talking about ways to remove combat altogether. You were looking at it from a role-playing point of view. I apologize sincerly. For everyone else, since I'm on a roll (no pun intended) I'm going to see how many other peolple I can piss off. The shittiest Discipline in game is the Knight. It has no role-playing redemption. It is mechanical in nature, and has little other value. People take it because it offers extra Damage, Life, and Armor. Period.

That being said, if the popular vote is to reduce the entire game to stats, and mechanics. Fine. I for one am sickened by the thought, and hope that role-playing concepts can survive.

~fin~

[WayneO42]

One of the core philosophies that FH is built on is "Mechanics should NEVER dictate roleplaying". Mechanics are simply for conflict resolution. Just because a discipline is all combat related does not mean it does not have the capability of providing excellent role-playing. The moment we make some rule like "All knights must follow the code of chivalry" is the moment we get cookie cutter characters. I could give you 10 different characters with the same stats that are completely different "individuals".

The same could be said for druid. If we came up with a few basic skills that the emulate totem could grant (claws, flee, poison attack, etc) and then fit the animal as close to one of those skills as possible, I think we would be fine. Its all in the role-playing. A wolf druid and a panther druid may get the same skill but the way each druid behaves and uses the skill will depend on the personality of the animal.