Spy Questions

[Onimaster]

This is disapointing...


I was hoping for you guys to make this skill more user friendly and useful rather than less...

1 escape bonds... the same issue of when are you ever tied up unless it's inescapable bonds so why spend the points on it?

2 disguise still can't offer any way to play other races so it is hard for anyone, but a human, to make the most out of the skill and actually fool players... Maybe there could be a new 'disguise kit' exotic item to let a spy do one additional set race per kit.

3. This should be a 1 or 2 level ability at best... Most people it's easy to figure out who they are spending their points on with common sense. Or maybe there is more to this than written, with finding and stealing things like trade routes or influencing NPC relations with PC's

4. Okay.. so I can hurt a guild/house... with my non-augment-able non-human common total of AP... This seams really weak as a master spy for anyone playing anything but a high level privileged human.

I was hoping that spy would get something cool like a resist to detect truth, or something.

[GM_Chris]

Well i do think you have some valid points here. Honestly we never heard any complaints about the skills thus never gave them a looksie. What we are debating about is if this discipline should be both privledged and Common.

I think you guys have something with bonding people and we need a complete solution that works. We as Gm's need to focus our attention on spells and alchemy SOOO please post your ideas..we neeed COMPLETE solutions.

I can definitly see a change to disguise to play other races. Perhaps the disguise kit is the best way to facilitate this. I think that is a fantastic idea.

Perhaps bonds should take X time, inescapable bonds means you cannot get out unless an escape artist which means it takes X amount of time. Still have a pass wall problem though


Chris

[McEwan]

Ya know you could always attach slander to the player level insted of AP. That would remove the problem non-humans feeling shunted. <shrug>

[GM_Chris]

Why should an orc be able to slander corbyn as well as a human?

Chris

[McEwan]

Agreed, but it would end the worries of non-humans

perhaps it could be tied to the race that's being spoaken to. And/or applied to trade routes <shrug> just spit-balling here.

[GM_Chris]

A non human guild has alot less AP's and the sage slander should effect them pretty well.

A non human is not as effective at some things. Not all combo's should be equal if they were then there would be less diversity.

Chris

[McEwan]

Okay, like I said, just spitballing <shrug>

[Onimaster]

After thinking about it, and talking to Mike (who campaigned for Slander to stay in), I had this idea... I wanted to see what people thought about it. I may post some more ideas I had that are a bit underdeveloped right now... Maybe even as part of a companion discapline to spy suggestion.


***

Spy - privileged, common
The spy is a person of political intrigue, capable of getting into and out of difficult situations. They can watch you from afar or even up close without your knowledge. They are an open ear in the bar, an open eye in the wild, and maybe, just maybe, that dark shadow in the corner who has been following you all evening.

Level 1 – Investigation
You can track how character(s) spend their allegiance, and any other political points such as military points, trade points, or organizational points. This ability functions similarly to the Sage’s research ability (and may be used in conjunction to cut time and boost value of information gained), but is geared specifically to allegiance and trade systems. This allows a spy to choose a target of investigation, and depending on how much time is devoted and the, size/scope of the target, ascertain information on the person or organization. This takes time as the spy must imbed themselves in the organization without detection. With enough time the spy may find secrets such as trade routes, organizational structure, NPCs that may wish to either aide or hinder the target, slanderers and blackmailers, and other such information.

Level 2 – Total Confidence
At this level the spy has learned to have total faith in his abilities of misdirection, and may project this calm with surgical precision. This allows him to mask the ticks and tells of his conscience whenever lying. You may resist ‘Detect Lie’ by spending a Life Point and do not need to declare you are doing so, however after the scene you must explain to a Game Master in private you have done so.

Level 3 – Escape Artist
By spending a Life point, a spy may escape any single regular bond (like a magician slipping out of handcuffs), turn an inescapable bond into a regular bond (a second LP may not be spent on the same bonds), or pick any non-magical lock.

Level 4 - Slander
The spy receives negative allegiance equal to their personal allegiance total. They may spend their negative allegiance on any organization or royal they choose, hampering their ability to sustain themselves politically. Example: Cedric the Shifty is a 20th level human. He has 20 allegiance points therefore he has twenty negative allegiance points to assign. JoJo McGuirk, the local noble, really upset Cedric by not giving him the pay he earned for researching an item so Cedric assigns twenty negative allegiance to JoJo. JoJo's total allegiance is now lowered by twenty. Cedric is also the head of a guild. He receives a total of 60 allegiance points from his guild mates. These allegiance points do not increase Cedrics negative allegiance total.

[GM_Chris]

I kinda like this great job!!!

First move escape artist and resist detect lie. I feel that is important.

As for the first level ability.....it does remove disguise so we dont have a wierd stacking issue question. Hmm I want feedback from people.

Oh and you say the escape artist can pick non magical locks. Needs looked at or removed because rogues can do that already.

Chris

[McEwan]

I REALLY like it and agree that the 2nd and 3rd need tio be switched tho risisting detect lie is at least a 3rd tier ability, maybe even move it down to 4th tier. This realy gives the feel of the shadowy type

[Neshca]

I have to say I really really like this idea of spy. I do agree changing the 2 and 3 spots around. makes it a little more balanced in the board view of things.

[Onimaster]

I kinda like this great job!!!

First move escape artist and resist detect lie. I feel that is important.

As for the first level ability.....it does remove disguise so we dont have a wierd stacking issue question. Hmm I want feedback from people.

Oh and you say the escape artist can pick non magical locks. Needs looked at or removed because rogues can do that already.

Chris

Well, Thank you...

Yeah, I can see the 1st Level ability being either that, or diguise...

I tossed the open locks ability on there because without it the power seems light for 3rd level and how often do we find locks in game... It seemed a practical choice... Didn't know Rogues got it. Maybe a different sweetener for the pot instead of locks?

I like the idea of spies being able to use disguise, and we fixed the stacking issue with the simple rule on the 'disguise kit' item. I was really torn about removing disguise... Especially when you were talking about how Sage is supposed to interface with the discaplines to basically do what I did here with investigate... And I didn't know how a spy/sage getting two between events sheets of research would go over with the GM staff.

[Onimaster]

I REALLY like it and agree that the 2nd and 3rd need tio be switched tho resisting detect lie is at least a 3rd tier ability, maybe even move it down to 4th tier. This really gives the feel of the shadowy type

Why??? Detect lie is a first level ability isn't it? And people already talk about how easy it is to hedge around it... (Hell Steve, Taki, Phil, and I talked about it at the Carps party while watching drunk people risk life and limb...) Why should a resist to a limited 1st or 2nd lvl need to be 3rd or 4th?

[Ian_McAllister]

Actually Detect Lie is a 2nd level ability.. and I see why they would want to move them.. that way the escape artist is one level off the Inescapable Bonds..(1st level Interragator).. And Total Confidence would go against Detect Lie (2nd level interragator)..

The only thing we really need now is posted rules on Binding someone up.

Although I would like to see finding someway to make Detect Lie a little more potent.. or mechanically playable.. especially if Total Confidence is brought into play. as pointed out many people get around Detect Lie by flying through loopholes already.. with a skill to actaully defeat it Detect Lie should be played a bit more potently.. In my opinion.

[Onimaster]

Actually Detect Lie is a 2nd level ability.. and I see why they would want to move them.. that way the escape artist is one level off the Inescapable Bonds..(1st level Interragator).. And Total Confidence would go against Detect Lie (2nd level interragator)..

I stand corrected... makes sense that way.